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stephen wolfram is one of the most

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inventive and prolific people on the

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planet he's the rare trifecta of a

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computer scientist

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a physicist and a business person who

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founded wolfram research

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designed mathematica which is a program

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that almost each

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mathematician physicist uses especially

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engineers as well as wolf from alpha

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which powers

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siri this may be the most wide-ranging

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interview with steven

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that exists we talk about aliens or

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alien life and the communication with

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them

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cryptocurrency the nature of infinity

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and the reality to

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infinity he even gives a template as to

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how to build your own theory of

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everything which

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separates him from others because most

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of the time people are proposing

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their own theory of everything keep in

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mind that the podcasts on theories of

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everything

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tend to be a bit more abstruse and

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technical

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if you don't follow some of the jargon

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that's okay the point is that you stick

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through anyway till the end

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to get an overview and then it's in the

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re-watching that the actual

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information is gleaned this was a live

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stream which is now reposted with better

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video

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and audio and while i was live streaming

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at the end i gave some of my thoughts

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which i've

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included at the end of this as well they

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include objections that i may have or

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questions that i'd like you to explore

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and perhaps you can give me

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your thoughts your answers in the

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discord or leave them in the comments

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section below the sponsor of today's

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podcast is

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algo algo is an end-to-end supply chain

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optimization software company

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with software that helps business users

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optimize sales and operations

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planning to avoid stockouts reduce

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returns and inventory write downs

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while reducing inventory investment it's

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a supply chain ai

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that drives smart ioi headed by a bright

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individual by the name of amjad hussein

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another supporter of the podcast is

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brilliant

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t-o-e

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if you'd like twenty percent off their

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annual subscription and i'll be speaking

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more on that

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later if you'd like to hear more

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conversations like this then please do

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consider supporting

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at patreon.com i've also recently opened

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up a crypto account and a paypal account

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and if you like

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you can donate there i plan on having

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many more conversations like this

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at the end of august there's going to be

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yoshibak and donald hoffman coming up

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at the end of this month i'm speaking to

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chris langan he's the person who has

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reportedly the highest iq

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in america and has a theory of

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everything called the cognitive

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theoretic model of the universe

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there's also a discord with the link in

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the description

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if you'd like to discuss the topics in

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this podcast or other podcast in real

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time to chat with other people who are

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like yourself thank you so much

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and enjoy cure i like your colored

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background that's very stylish

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so okay so tell me just for before we

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before we get

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started here just give me a sense of who

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your viewers are

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sure sure they're generally

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mathematicians and physicists as well as

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amateur mathematicians and physicists

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people who are interested in

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consciousness as well so we'll talk a

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bit about consciousness okay

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so how long have you been doing this

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podcast i've been doing it for almost a

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year and i'm surprised that

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i was super excited that it's growing

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the way it is

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and well just i just hope people

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continue to be interested in those

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intellectual things when they're not

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locked at home with a pandemic

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yeah that's right that's right if i look

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around

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it's i'm just focused on you i have

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notes here i'm when i think i always

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don't worry about it don't worry about

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it okay you won't distract me

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great great great i think that the

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ingeniousness of

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steven a view of what you've done is

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difficult to overstate

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with regard to the tools you provided

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mathematicians and engineers

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physicists you've

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not only provided concrete computational

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tools but also

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i don't know if you've heard of this

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concept called psychotechnologies

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the language is a psychotechnology it's

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what changes the way that you

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communicate and think

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and it's a good time i haven't heard

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that term so that's an interesting

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though

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great sounds a little bit sinister

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though

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well i don't intend to be sinister it is

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important to give people

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frameworks to think within but uh uh

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yeah much of the critiques that i've

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read of yours are ad hominins they're

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not from people who have

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read your work and i find that

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frustrating because as i'm researching

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firstly just so you know i've gone

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through the jonathan gerrard archive

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papers

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almost each of them as well as your

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bulletins and it's so

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tricky at least i find it frustrating

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because people who are commenting on you

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are commenting at an extremely high

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level

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at what they perceive you're doing or

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what they perceive you think

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you're doing with what you're doing and

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i'm curious if you get frustrated as

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well

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one one feature of uh you know

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i do what i do because i'm interested in

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doing what i do so to speak

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i'm not really doing it because i'm you

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know

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trying to convince other people that

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what we're doing is incredibly clever or

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whatever

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and you know so the the the kind of

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if i had spent my life kind of saying

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what do other people think about what

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i'm doing

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i wouldn't have done most of the things

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i've ever done and

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i think as a matter of fact the thing

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that's been

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actually a surprise to me is

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how very positive so many people

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particularly in the physics community

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are being about the project that we're

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doing you know

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it's a surprise partly because 20 years

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ago

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when i released my new kind of science

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book

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it's uh you know i'm enough of a student

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of the history of science that i kind of

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understand a little bit about what

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happens when

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when paradigm shifts when sort of

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changes of thinking occur

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and one is absolutely should expect

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that uh the the benign thing that

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happens is people just keep doing what

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they were doing before and they

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completely ignore whatever the new

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paradigm is

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the less benign thing is people get out

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their pitchforks

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and they say we don't want a new

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paradigm we're you know

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go away we just want to keep doing what

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we've been doing and what i found when

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when the new kind of science book came

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out 20 years ago

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in pretty much every field other than

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fundamental physics

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people were like oh this is kind of

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interesting you know we don't mind

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having a new paradigm we've

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you know we're they're uh or maybe they

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said we don't care but mostly they were

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most

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fields it was like this idea of using

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computation as a foundation for modeling

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this seems interesting this seems like

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something we should explore

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and they did the one place where that

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was um where it was a lot of pitchforks

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um was a little strange to me because

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you know i

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used to be a professional theoretical

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physicist so to speak so

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i you know i i knew that crowd of people

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um

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and it was a bit surprising to me you

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know i i said to many of them

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i'm surprised you care why do you care

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so much

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and they were like because what you're

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doing is going to destroy all the stuff

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we've been doing and it's like i don't

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think so

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you know if we're doing something it's

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complementary to what's what's being

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done elsewhere

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not uh not something that at

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cross-purposes so okay

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so 20 years goes by and now uh

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for a whole variety of reasons not the

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least uh being uh

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jonathan gorad and and max piskanhofen

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and other people

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sort of saying yes we'll we'll help you

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actually push this thing forward

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um i get started on the project again

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two things

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surprised me first thing is that the new

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paradigm that that we've kind of

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built out is much more

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uh sort of much more

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not complementary but much more uh kind

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of supportive

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of a lot of existing mathematical

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physics than i had expected

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that's one thing that's an intellectual

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thing the biggest surprise is

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the sociological response has been

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basically positive

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um and uh you know it's it's not a

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trivial thing to introduce something

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which is sort of a

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a significant change of a bunch of ideas

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in a field

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and have people feel like yes that's a

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good thing it's

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it's uh it's something that people can

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get behind so i'm sure there's all kinds

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of coping about all kinds of things

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and i have to say i'm pretty pretty uh

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it's

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read it i don't know what's there

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i don't really care it's um you know i

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think one thing to realize about

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about my kind of activities

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is from my point of view one of the

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things that i get

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you know personally most fulfilled by is

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thinking that the things that i build

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whether they're

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practical technological tools whether

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they're ideas

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are things other people have fun with to

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me for whatever reason of you know

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personal peculiarity or whatever i like

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that that's

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like that's that's really nice i i like

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feeling that way

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i also recognize that you know any time

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one has

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a degree of visibility in the world one

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becomes kind of

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a thing that gets battered around by

287
00:08:59,190 --> 00:08:57,440
people of like look you know i can use

288
00:09:00,870 --> 00:08:59,200
this person as an example of this point

289
00:09:03,350 --> 00:09:00,880
that i'm making about this or

290
00:09:05,190 --> 00:09:03,360
you know look i i you know i need to

291
00:09:06,870 --> 00:09:05,200
hate this person because

292
00:09:08,550 --> 00:09:06,880
this and that and the other you know

293
00:09:09,990 --> 00:09:08,560
because it makes me look good for this

294
00:09:10,790 --> 00:09:10,000
group of people or whatever it is who

295
00:09:13,350 --> 00:09:10,800
knows what

296
00:09:14,550 --> 00:09:13,360
you know that's what you sign up for um

297
00:09:16,150 --> 00:09:14,560
if you're doing things that have

298
00:09:18,310 --> 00:09:16,160
visibility in the world

299
00:09:19,750 --> 00:09:18,320
and as far as i'm concerned you know

300
00:09:22,870 --> 00:09:19,760
it's it's uh

301
00:09:24,949 --> 00:09:22,880
insofar as i'm kind of the the mascot of

302
00:09:25,670 --> 00:09:24,959
or the anti-mascot for this or that

303
00:09:27,350 --> 00:09:25,680
thing

304
00:09:29,190 --> 00:09:27,360
it's like okay that's fine it has very

305
00:09:32,550 --> 00:09:29,200
little to do with me so to speak

306
00:09:34,070 --> 00:09:32,560
um so i would say that the thing that's

307
00:09:37,829 --> 00:09:34,080
been interesting is

308
00:09:38,870 --> 00:09:37,839
is uh uh you know

309
00:09:41,590 --> 00:09:38,880
there's been a lot there are a lot of

310
00:09:43,590 --> 00:09:41,600
fields now where there's a pretty good

311
00:09:45,110 --> 00:09:43,600
uh sort of back and forth connection

312
00:09:46,790 --> 00:09:45,120
between the things that we've been doing

313
00:09:48,790 --> 00:09:46,800
with our physics project

314
00:09:49,990 --> 00:09:48,800
and the kinds of uh often quite

315
00:09:51,509 --> 00:09:50,000
sophisticated mathematical

316
00:09:53,509 --> 00:09:51,519
physics that people have been developing

317
00:09:54,790 --> 00:09:53,519
in those areas and as far as i'm

318
00:09:56,310 --> 00:09:54,800
concerned that's

319
00:09:57,910 --> 00:09:56,320
that's really cool i mean it's really

320
00:10:00,310 --> 00:09:57,920
nice it's i i really

321
00:10:02,069 --> 00:10:00,320
excited that people in these fields

322
00:10:03,670 --> 00:10:02,079
sometimes their fields which have been

323
00:10:05,269 --> 00:10:03,680
a little bit marooned because they've

324
00:10:07,110 --> 00:10:05,279
been or a little bit sort of

325
00:10:08,069 --> 00:10:07,120
adrift because they're fields where

326
00:10:09,430 --> 00:10:08,079
there's a lot of interesting

327
00:10:10,550 --> 00:10:09,440
mathematical structure

328
00:10:13,509 --> 00:10:10,560
but they don't really know how it

329
00:10:14,710 --> 00:10:13,519
connects to the real world so to speak

330
00:10:16,150 --> 00:10:14,720
and now we're giving them a way to

331
00:10:17,350 --> 00:10:16,160
connect and often and giving them a way

332
00:10:18,870 --> 00:10:17,360
to understand

333
00:10:20,630 --> 00:10:18,880
why their mathematical structure is more

334
00:10:23,750 --> 00:10:20,640
natural than they thought and so on

335
00:10:24,870 --> 00:10:23,760
and i think for me personally the uh the

336
00:10:26,870 --> 00:10:24,880
fact that

337
00:10:28,710 --> 00:10:26,880
people in those fields are excited about

338
00:10:29,350 --> 00:10:28,720
this that's really cool i really like

339
00:10:31,829 --> 00:10:29,360
that

340
00:10:33,190 --> 00:10:31,839
um so but perhaps i didn't since i

341
00:10:34,790 --> 00:10:33,200
didn't hear all the words of the

342
00:10:36,310 --> 00:10:34,800
question you asked maybe i wasn't

343
00:10:38,389 --> 00:10:36,320
answering them i'm not used to this

344
00:10:40,150 --> 00:10:38,399
particular recording mechanism so

345
00:10:41,670 --> 00:10:40,160
uh that can't be absolutely certain but

346
00:10:42,949 --> 00:10:41,680
it looks right

347
00:10:45,350 --> 00:10:42,959
why don't you give a three-minute

348
00:10:47,430 --> 00:10:45,360
synopsis i know that's difficult

349
00:10:49,750 --> 00:10:47,440
as to your theory for those who are

350
00:10:52,710 --> 00:10:49,760
unacquainted

351
00:10:54,630 --> 00:10:52,720
well gosh so i've been working on this

352
00:10:56,069 --> 00:10:54,640
for like 40 years so it's a little bit

353
00:10:58,790 --> 00:10:56,079
hard to compress but

354
00:11:00,630 --> 00:10:58,800
but i suppose as gradually as one learns

355
00:11:03,190 --> 00:11:00,640
more about what one's talking about

356
00:11:04,069 --> 00:11:03,200
it becomes easier to explain all right

357
00:11:07,509 --> 00:11:04,079
let's

358
00:11:10,310 --> 00:11:07,519
talk about physics and kind of um

359
00:11:10,710 --> 00:11:10,320
what's the universe made of so to speak

360
00:11:13,430 --> 00:11:10,720
and

361
00:11:15,590 --> 00:11:13,440
i think one of the things that has been

362
00:11:18,550 --> 00:11:15,600
the the first question is

363
00:11:19,430 --> 00:11:18,560
uh we think about things like space and

364
00:11:21,030 --> 00:11:19,440
time

365
00:11:23,110 --> 00:11:21,040
and the traditional view of something

366
00:11:25,910 --> 00:11:23,120
like space has been

367
00:11:26,230 --> 00:11:25,920
it's this thing that you put things in

368
00:11:29,990 --> 00:11:26,240
it

369
00:11:33,030 --> 00:11:30,000
of a background

370
00:11:34,630 --> 00:11:33,040
and you get to specify a position here

371
00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:34,640
or there in space that's been kind of

372
00:11:39,750 --> 00:11:36,240
the idea of space

373
00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:39,760
since uh euclid and so on so

374
00:11:46,310 --> 00:11:43,600
one of the the basic points in uh

375
00:11:47,590 --> 00:11:46,320
kind of the the models that we've

376
00:11:50,230 --> 00:11:47,600
developed is

377
00:11:51,030 --> 00:11:50,240
uh there's something space is made of

378
00:11:53,670 --> 00:11:51,040
something

379
00:11:55,910 --> 00:11:53,680
just like a fluid like water you might

380
00:11:57,030 --> 00:11:55,920
think of it as just a continuous fluid

381
00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:57,040
where you can like

382
00:12:01,190 --> 00:12:00,000
uh put something anywhere in the fluid

383
00:12:03,190 --> 00:12:01,200
actually you can't

384
00:12:04,949 --> 00:12:03,200
it's made of discreet molecules bouncing

385
00:12:05,829 --> 00:12:04,959
around and and so we think it is with

386
00:12:08,310 --> 00:12:05,839
space

387
00:12:09,509 --> 00:12:08,320
that uh sort of at the lowest level at

388
00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:09,519
very small scales

389
00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:11,920
space is just made of a whole collection

390
00:12:15,910 --> 00:12:13,600
of discrete elements we can think of

391
00:12:18,550 --> 00:12:15,920
them as like geometrical points

392
00:12:19,350 --> 00:12:18,560
but they're not points that have a known

393
00:12:22,829 --> 00:12:19,360
position

394
00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:22,839
in anything they're just discrete

395
00:12:26,310 --> 00:12:24,800
elements and the only thing we know

396
00:12:27,829 --> 00:12:26,320
about those elements is how they're

397
00:12:28,470 --> 00:12:27,839
connected to other elements so it's kind

398
00:12:31,910 --> 00:12:28,480
of like

399
00:12:34,310 --> 00:12:31,920
the the the points since that exists

400
00:12:36,069 --> 00:12:34,320
in the universe are sort of friends with

401
00:12:36,790 --> 00:12:36,079
other points and we build up this whole

402
00:12:39,910 --> 00:12:36,800
network

403
00:12:42,150 --> 00:12:39,920
of connections between points and so

404
00:12:43,990 --> 00:12:42,160
our our universe as it is today might

405
00:12:46,870 --> 00:12:44,000
have maybe 10 to the 400

406
00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:46,880
of these uh of these sort of atoms of

407
00:12:50,550 --> 00:12:47,920
space

408
00:12:51,509 --> 00:12:50,560
that make it up so sort of the first

409
00:12:54,069 --> 00:12:51,519
point is

410
00:12:54,790 --> 00:12:54,079
everything in the universe is just space

411
00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:54,800
so

412
00:12:58,870 --> 00:12:57,120
what uh all of the particles and

413
00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:58,880
electrons and quarks and all those kinds

414
00:13:02,230 --> 00:13:00,000
of things they're all

415
00:13:03,590 --> 00:13:02,240
just features of this details of the

416
00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:03,600
connections between these

417
00:13:07,590 --> 00:13:05,760
atoms of space so sort of the first

418
00:13:09,509 --> 00:13:07,600
thing is what's the universe made of

419
00:13:10,870 --> 00:13:09,519
it's made of space what space made of

420
00:13:14,310 --> 00:13:10,880
space is made of this

421
00:13:16,310 --> 00:13:14,320
giant network of of nodes giant network

422
00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:16,320
of discrete elements

423
00:13:20,710 --> 00:13:19,120
and we don't even from that no wire

424
00:13:22,550 --> 00:13:20,720
space three-dimensional that the thing

425
00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:22,560
could be connected any way at once

426
00:13:26,310 --> 00:13:25,440
what happens is that on a large scale

427
00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:26,320
something which is

428
00:13:30,470 --> 00:13:28,320
discretely connected like that can

429
00:13:31,990 --> 00:13:30,480
behave as if it is for example a

430
00:13:34,389 --> 00:13:32,000
three-dimensional manifold

431
00:13:35,829 --> 00:13:34,399
on a large scale and and for example one

432
00:13:37,430 --> 00:13:35,839
thing that can happen and we think does

433
00:13:38,790 --> 00:13:37,440
happen in the early universe

434
00:13:40,710 --> 00:13:38,800
is that the universe goes from being

435
00:13:42,790 --> 00:13:40,720
essentially an infinite dimensional

436
00:13:44,550 --> 00:13:42,800
uh network where things are everything

437
00:13:45,910 --> 00:13:44,560
sort of connected to everything else

438
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:45,920
to this sort of more or less

439
00:13:48,150 --> 00:13:47,600
three-dimensional so far as we know

440
00:13:49,509 --> 00:13:48,160
right now

441
00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:49,519
perfectly three-dimensional though we

442
00:13:52,150 --> 00:13:51,040
suspect there are some dimension

443
00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:52,160
fluctuations

444
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:54,480
um that exists today so okay so that's

445
00:14:00,069 --> 00:13:55,920
sort of what space

446
00:14:02,870 --> 00:14:00,079
is then what's time well

447
00:14:04,870 --> 00:14:02,880
the the the point is the idea is that

448
00:14:07,110 --> 00:14:04,880
there are these definite rules

449
00:14:08,629 --> 00:14:07,120
that will say if there's a piece of

450
00:14:10,230 --> 00:14:08,639
network that looks like this

451
00:14:12,230 --> 00:14:10,240
transform it into one that looks like

452
00:14:13,030 --> 00:14:12,240
that and that's continually happening

453
00:14:15,430 --> 00:14:13,040
throughout this

454
00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:15,440
this network that represents uh the

455
00:14:18,470 --> 00:14:16,480
structure of space

456
00:14:19,509 --> 00:14:18,480
and the content of the universe and so

457
00:14:21,910 --> 00:14:19,519
what's what

458
00:14:23,509 --> 00:14:21,920
um uh what we're what we're seeing then

459
00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:23,519
is a sort of progression

460
00:14:27,350 --> 00:14:25,440
of all of these little updates of this

461
00:14:29,670 --> 00:14:27,360
network that represents space

462
00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:29,680
and that progress of all those updates

463
00:14:32,949 --> 00:14:31,680
corresponds to the progress of time

464
00:14:34,949 --> 00:14:32,959
and one of the things that's unusual

465
00:14:36,310 --> 00:14:34,959
about that is for the last hundred years

466
00:14:38,150 --> 00:14:36,320
or so in physics people have kind of

467
00:14:39,910 --> 00:14:38,160
assumed space and time is sort of

468
00:14:41,990 --> 00:14:39,920
the same kind of thing one knows about

469
00:14:42,389 --> 00:14:42,000
relativity one knows that sort of

470
00:14:46,629 --> 00:14:42,399
there's

471
00:14:49,189 --> 00:14:46,639
space with time yet in our theory

472
00:14:50,550 --> 00:14:49,199
space is this extension of this this as

473
00:14:53,670 --> 00:14:50,560
it is turns out to be a

474
00:14:54,389 --> 00:14:53,680
hyper graph this network basically and

475
00:14:56,550 --> 00:14:54,399
time

476
00:14:57,670 --> 00:14:56,560
is the progressive sort of inexorable

477
00:15:00,069 --> 00:14:57,680
computation

478
00:15:01,430 --> 00:15:00,079
of the next configuration of the network

479
00:15:02,710 --> 00:15:01,440
based on rewriting the previous

480
00:15:04,790 --> 00:15:02,720
configuration

481
00:15:06,949 --> 00:15:04,800
so one of the things that is sort of an

482
00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:06,959
early thing to realize in our models

483
00:15:10,629 --> 00:15:09,680
is this question of of so how does

484
00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:10,639
things how does something like

485
00:15:15,110 --> 00:15:12,160
relativity arise

486
00:15:17,110 --> 00:15:15,120
well the answer is if you are an entity

487
00:15:18,790 --> 00:15:17,120
embedded within this network

488
00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:18,800
it turns out that the only thing you are

489
00:15:23,670 --> 00:15:20,880
ever sensitive to is kind of the

490
00:15:24,150 --> 00:15:23,680
the the network of causal relationships

491
00:15:26,470 --> 00:15:24,160
between

492
00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:26,480
updating events and it turns out there's

493
00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:28,000
a few more steps here but

494
00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:30,880
it turns out that uh with uh with

495
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:32,320
certain conditions on the way those

496
00:15:37,030 --> 00:15:33,680
updatings work

497
00:15:39,269 --> 00:15:37,040
it is the case that uh uh

498
00:15:40,949 --> 00:15:39,279
basically special relativity comes out

499
00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:40,959
of that we can talk in more detail about

500
00:15:45,189 --> 00:15:42,560
how that works

501
00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:45,199
so the next thing that happens is this

502
00:15:47,670 --> 00:15:46,240
the space

503
00:15:50,150 --> 00:15:47,680
just made up from this network it's sort

504
00:15:51,749 --> 00:15:50,160
of the the the the continuum limit of

505
00:15:53,350 --> 00:15:51,759
this network in the sense it's like

506
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:53,360
you've got these atoms of space

507
00:15:57,749 --> 00:15:55,920
underneath and then a large scale space

508
00:15:58,790 --> 00:15:57,759
is like kind of a fluid made up of lots

509
00:16:01,749 --> 00:15:58,800
of atoms

510
00:16:02,230 --> 00:16:01,759
um that uh behaves in the continuous way

511
00:16:04,550 --> 00:16:02,240
that we're

512
00:16:05,670 --> 00:16:04,560
used to to perceiving it and then it

513
00:16:08,310 --> 00:16:05,680
turns out

514
00:16:09,509 --> 00:16:08,320
that you can get space in any other

515
00:16:11,189 --> 00:16:09,519
dimensions you can get space with

516
00:16:14,710 --> 00:16:11,199
different kinds of curvature

517
00:16:17,590 --> 00:16:14,720
one of the big results is that you can

518
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:17,600
get uh the the the way the curvature

519
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:19,199
arises in space

520
00:16:22,230 --> 00:16:20,880
is exactly the way that einstein's

521
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:22,240
equations for gravity

522
00:16:26,389 --> 00:16:24,880
say curvature should arise roughly

523
00:16:28,550 --> 00:16:26,399
energy momentum

524
00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:28,560
mass these are all associated with

525
00:16:32,710 --> 00:16:30,480
levels of activity in the network

526
00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:32,720
and roughly levels of activity in the

527
00:16:36,310 --> 00:16:35,040
network produce curvature in the network

528
00:16:38,790 --> 00:16:36,320
in just the way that einstein's

529
00:16:41,910 --> 00:16:38,800
equations say that uh

530
00:16:44,629 --> 00:16:41,920
energy momentum in in physical

531
00:16:45,829 --> 00:16:44,639
space-time should produce curvature in

532
00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:45,839
in space

533
00:16:48,949 --> 00:16:47,759
so that's that's a pretty important

534
00:16:51,030 --> 00:16:48,959
thing i actually knew that back in the

535
00:16:53,910 --> 00:16:51,040
1990s that these models

536
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:53,920
um could uh reproduce general relativity

537
00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:56,000
reproduce einstein's equations

538
00:16:59,749 --> 00:16:58,399
so then the next big sort of pillar of

539
00:17:00,710 --> 00:16:59,759
20th century physics is quantum

540
00:17:02,470 --> 00:17:00,720
mechanics

541
00:17:04,230 --> 00:17:02,480
they're really literally probably two or

542
00:17:05,270 --> 00:17:04,240
maybe three pillars of 20th century

543
00:17:07,510 --> 00:17:05,280
physics

544
00:17:09,510 --> 00:17:07,520
general relativity the theory of gravity

545
00:17:11,669 --> 00:17:09,520
uh quantum mechanics

546
00:17:12,789 --> 00:17:11,679
and also to some extent statistical

547
00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:12,799
mechanics

548
00:17:17,590 --> 00:17:15,520
which also uh sort of comes out from the

549
00:17:19,429 --> 00:17:17,600
formalism of these models but it's

550
00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:19,439
maybe it's not the first thing to

551
00:17:23,350 --> 00:17:20,720
explain here

552
00:17:24,630 --> 00:17:23,360
but um so how does quantum mechanics

553
00:17:25,990 --> 00:17:24,640
arise well first thing is what is

554
00:17:27,669 --> 00:17:26,000
quantum mechanics what is the

555
00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:27,679
what is the important feature of quantum

556
00:17:32,549 --> 00:17:29,280
mechanics basically

557
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:32,559
in classical physics before the 1920s or

558
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:33,679
so

559
00:17:38,150 --> 00:17:36,080
people thought that in physics there

560
00:17:40,870 --> 00:17:38,160
were definite equations of motion

561
00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:40,880
things behave in definite ways you throw

562
00:17:45,909 --> 00:17:43,200
a ball it goes in a definite trajectory

563
00:17:47,669 --> 00:17:45,919
when what quantum mechanics says is no

564
00:17:49,029 --> 00:17:47,679
that doesn't isn't what happens

565
00:17:51,029 --> 00:17:49,039
instead there are many possible

566
00:17:52,630 --> 00:17:51,039
histories that develop and

567
00:17:54,789 --> 00:17:52,640
the the universe has many possible

568
00:17:55,430 --> 00:17:54,799
histories and all we get to be sensitive

569
00:17:57,909 --> 00:17:55,440
to

570
00:17:58,789 --> 00:17:57,919
is some kind of aggregated probability

571
00:18:00,789 --> 00:17:58,799
of what happens

572
00:18:02,470 --> 00:18:00,799
not knowing specifically what the

573
00:18:04,150 --> 00:18:02,480
history of the universe is

574
00:18:06,789 --> 00:18:04,160
well it turns out in our models that's

575
00:18:09,430 --> 00:18:06,799
something that inevitably works that way

576
00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:09,440
and um what happens is we're talking

577
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:11,039
about sort of the rewriting of this big

578
00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:11,919
network

579
00:18:15,350 --> 00:18:14,400
and the point is that there isn't just

580
00:18:17,110 --> 00:18:15,360
one

581
00:18:18,789 --> 00:18:17,120
possible rewrite that happens at any

582
00:18:19,669 --> 00:18:18,799
given time there are many possible

583
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:19,679
rewrites

584
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:21,200
and each of those different possible

585
00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:22,960
rewrites represents

586
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:24,880
essentially taking the universe in a

587
00:18:29,510 --> 00:18:26,640
different path of history

588
00:18:30,070 --> 00:18:29,520
but the critical fact is that just as

589
00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:30,080
there are

590
00:18:33,190 --> 00:18:31,600
there might be two possible rewrites

591
00:18:34,150 --> 00:18:33,200
that could happen and they produce a

592
00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:34,160
branching

593
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:36,640
of two parts of history so also it will

594
00:18:40,150 --> 00:18:38,160
turn out when there are other

595
00:18:42,070 --> 00:18:40,160
rewritings that can happen later that

596
00:18:43,110 --> 00:18:42,080
actually these branches can merge so you

597
00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:43,120
end up with something

598
00:18:47,110 --> 00:18:44,960
which is this whole graph of possible

599
00:18:48,950 --> 00:18:47,120
histories we call it a multi-way graph

600
00:18:51,830 --> 00:18:48,960
and in this multi-way graph there is

601
00:18:54,470 --> 00:18:51,840
both branching and merging of histories

602
00:18:56,070 --> 00:18:54,480
and that uh that process of branching

603
00:18:58,150 --> 00:18:56,080
and merging of histories

604
00:18:59,590 --> 00:18:58,160
that ends up being the story of quantum

605
00:19:01,350 --> 00:18:59,600
mechanics basically

606
00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:01,360
and one of the things that sort of a

607
00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:03,440
thing to to think about is

608
00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:05,440
when we look at they have this whole

609
00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:07,120
multi-way graph of all these branching

610
00:19:12,310 --> 00:19:08,880
histories of the universe

611
00:19:13,430 --> 00:19:12,320
and we say let's let's imagine that we

612
00:19:16,310 --> 00:19:13,440
are observing that

613
00:19:17,350 --> 00:19:16,320
we are uh it's a little bit hard to

614
00:19:19,830 --> 00:19:17,360
imagine because

615
00:19:20,710 --> 00:19:19,840
what's happening is we our brains our

616
00:19:23,270 --> 00:19:20,720
minds

617
00:19:23,830 --> 00:19:23,280
are the are themselves embedded in this

618
00:19:26,470 --> 00:19:23,840
multi-way

619
00:19:28,070 --> 00:19:26,480
graph so just as the universe is

620
00:19:31,029 --> 00:19:28,080
breaking into all these different

621
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:31,039
parts of history so too are our brains

622
00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:32,480
breaking into all these different parts

623
00:19:35,430 --> 00:19:33,280
of history

624
00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:35,440
so in a sense what's happening is it's a

625
00:19:38,390 --> 00:19:37,600
branching brain observing a branching

626
00:19:40,070 --> 00:19:38,400
universe

627
00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:40,080
you have to kind of think about what is

628
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:42,160
how do you how do you kind of

629
00:19:46,310 --> 00:19:44,559
how does a how does the brain how does

630
00:19:49,430 --> 00:19:46,320
our mind make sense of

631
00:19:51,029 --> 00:19:49,440
that universe and what you realize is

632
00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:51,039
that you're kind of defining what we

633
00:19:54,710 --> 00:19:53,039
might call reference frames

634
00:19:56,710 --> 00:19:54,720
kind of quantum reference frames they're

635
00:19:58,390 --> 00:19:56,720
analogous to the reference frames that

636
00:20:00,310 --> 00:19:58,400
we think about in relativity where

637
00:20:02,310 --> 00:20:00,320
reference frames typical inertial frames

638
00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:02,320
are things like you are at rest you're

639
00:20:05,110 --> 00:20:04,000
traveling at a certain velocity

640
00:20:07,190 --> 00:20:05,120
et cetera et cetera et cetera there's

641
00:20:07,909 --> 00:20:07,200
kind of a quantum analog of those and

642
00:20:10,149 --> 00:20:07,919
that's

643
00:20:12,070 --> 00:20:10,159
the way that we perceive this multi-way

644
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:12,080
graph of possible histories

645
00:20:16,470 --> 00:20:14,640
and so when we say let's pick a

646
00:20:18,070 --> 00:20:16,480
particular quantum reference frame

647
00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:18,080
uh corresponds to more or less a

648
00:20:22,789 --> 00:20:19,520
particular time

649
00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:22,799
um and that let's then ask

650
00:20:26,870 --> 00:20:24,400
what is the sort of slice of this

651
00:20:29,029 --> 00:20:26,880
multi-way graph

652
00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:29,039
defined by this quantum reference frame

653
00:20:31,590 --> 00:20:29,919
what we have is

654
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:31,600
all these different possible histories

655
00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:33,440
and they're all kind of laid out

656
00:20:37,029 --> 00:20:35,200
in some sense histories can be close to

657
00:20:37,909 --> 00:20:37,039
each other if they had common ancestors

658
00:20:39,190 --> 00:20:37,919
recently

659
00:20:40,549 --> 00:20:39,200
histories could be further away from

660
00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:40,559
each other if they didn't have a common

661
00:20:43,909 --> 00:20:42,400
ancestor for a long time and so on

662
00:20:45,909 --> 00:20:43,919
all these histories are kind of laid out

663
00:20:48,070 --> 00:20:45,919
in some kind of space we call that

664
00:20:50,149 --> 00:20:48,080
branchial space the space of branches

665
00:20:52,549 --> 00:20:50,159
the space of quantum branches

666
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:52,559
and that branchial space it's not like

667
00:20:54,870 --> 00:20:54,240
physical space it's not like something

668
00:20:57,270 --> 00:20:54,880
where

669
00:20:57,990 --> 00:20:57,280
you have ordinary motion from one place

670
00:21:01,029 --> 00:20:58,000
to another

671
00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:01,039
but in branchial space um there is it's

672
00:21:04,789 --> 00:21:02,640
it's a layout of possible histories of

673
00:21:05,990 --> 00:21:04,799
the uh possible states of the universe

674
00:21:08,470 --> 00:21:06,000
effectively

675
00:21:09,430 --> 00:21:08,480
so one of the things that i find really

676
00:21:11,830 --> 00:21:09,440
neat

677
00:21:13,510 --> 00:21:11,840
is that you can talk about motion in

678
00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:13,520
physical space you can talk about

679
00:21:17,909 --> 00:21:16,480
uh for example uh you know even ever

680
00:21:18,310 --> 00:21:17,919
since newton we've we've kind of had

681
00:21:20,070 --> 00:21:18,320
this

682
00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:20,080
principle that if things aren't acted on

683
00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:22,080
by a force they will keep going in a

684
00:21:25,590 --> 00:21:23,840
state of uniform motion

685
00:21:27,110 --> 00:21:25,600
so it's kind of like things go in

686
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:27,120
straight lines if you leave them by

687
00:21:29,669 --> 00:21:28,080
themselves

688
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:29,679
and kind of einstein's big idea in

689
00:21:33,190 --> 00:21:32,000
general artillery was to think that yes

690
00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:33,200
things do go in

691
00:21:37,590 --> 00:21:34,640
kind of straight lines in the sense that

692
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:37,600
their shortest paths geodesic paths

693
00:21:43,750 --> 00:21:41,440
but space can be curved and then what

694
00:21:46,149 --> 00:21:43,760
might be to the thing kind of its

695
00:21:48,549 --> 00:21:46,159
straight line path to the outside

696
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:48,559
is a curved path and because that

697
00:21:51,669 --> 00:21:49,440
curvature

698
00:21:52,549 --> 00:21:51,679
is associated with energy momentum that

699
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:52,559
is what

700
00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:54,240
leads to the effect of gravity so to

701
00:21:56,870 --> 00:21:55,760
speak so physical space that's how

702
00:21:58,470 --> 00:21:56,880
things work

703
00:22:00,710 --> 00:21:58,480
turns out in branch shield space they

704
00:22:03,190 --> 00:22:00,720
work in essentially exactly the same way

705
00:22:04,149 --> 00:22:03,200
except now in terms of the equations of

706
00:22:06,230 --> 00:22:04,159
gravity

707
00:22:07,990 --> 00:22:06,240
we have uh the equations of quantum

708
00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:08,000
mechanics and quantum field theory

709
00:22:11,669 --> 00:22:10,080
um and essentially what's happening is

710
00:22:13,990 --> 00:22:11,679
that there are sort of paths in

711
00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:14,000
branchial space that are being followed

712
00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:16,720
and we are seeing deflections of those

713
00:22:21,350 --> 00:22:18,720
paths actually associated also

714
00:22:22,870 --> 00:22:21,360
with energy momentum and the way those

715
00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:22,880
deflections work

716
00:22:26,789 --> 00:22:25,440
uh exactly gives one the path integral

717
00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:26,799
of quantum mechanics

718
00:22:29,909 --> 00:22:28,880
so the the thing that's really pretty

719
00:22:32,549 --> 00:22:29,919
neat is

720
00:22:33,750 --> 00:22:32,559
i mean one of many very neat things but

721
00:22:36,789 --> 00:22:33,760
one thing that i

722
00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:36,799
just found uh really was a very wow

723
00:22:41,029 --> 00:22:39,440
moment about a year and a bit ago now

724
00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:41,039
gosh you can't believe it so long

725
00:22:44,149 --> 00:22:43,840
um the uh congratulations by the way

726
00:22:47,830 --> 00:22:44,159
it's

727
00:22:49,510 --> 00:22:47,840
um uh yeah well time time inexorably

728
00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:49,520
moves forward right so

729
00:22:53,430 --> 00:22:52,320
it's it's um no but i think the the um

730
00:22:55,110 --> 00:22:53,440
uh

731
00:22:57,110 --> 00:22:55,120
that you know sort of a wow moment was

732
00:22:59,029 --> 00:22:57,120
realizing that that the einstein

733
00:23:00,950 --> 00:22:59,039
equations in physical space

734
00:23:02,310 --> 00:23:00,960
are basically the same thing as the

735
00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:02,320
feynman path integral

736
00:23:06,789 --> 00:23:04,960
in bronchial space so in a sense general

737
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:06,799
relativity and quantum mechanics

738
00:23:11,350 --> 00:23:09,360
are the same theory just played out in

739
00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:11,360
these different kinds of space

740
00:23:15,750 --> 00:23:13,840
and uh that has a lot of implications

741
00:23:17,669 --> 00:23:15,760
because it kind of shows one

742
00:23:19,110 --> 00:23:17,679
how there are correspondences between

743
00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:19,120
general relativity and quantum

744
00:23:22,789 --> 00:23:21,440
and quantum mechanics and the sort of

745
00:23:25,909 --> 00:23:22,799
the sort of uh

746
00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:25,919
i don't know intersectional cases uh

747
00:23:29,110 --> 00:23:27,360
when one's dealing with black holes and

748
00:23:29,590 --> 00:23:29,120
so on but but so that's a that's at

749
00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:29,600
least

750
00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:32,880
one level of um uh the story of our

751
00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:34,000
models of physics

752
00:23:38,470 --> 00:23:36,400
and um uh you know there's a lot of

753
00:23:40,230 --> 00:23:38,480
detail a lot of things that are now

754
00:23:42,149 --> 00:23:40,240
it's now clear yes we really can

755
00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:42,159
reproduce exactly what happens in you

756
00:23:44,390 --> 00:23:42,640
know

757
00:23:45,990 --> 00:23:44,400
black hole mergers we can reproduce what

758
00:23:47,669 --> 00:23:46,000
happens in quantum computing

759
00:23:50,549 --> 00:23:47,679
we can reproduce all these other kinds

760
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:50,559
of things and we're starting to have

761
00:23:55,510 --> 00:23:53,520
kind of ideas about uh you know a lot of

762
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:55,520
i know a lot of experimental physicists

763
00:23:58,950 --> 00:23:57,360
who keep on saying to me when are you

764
00:23:59,590 --> 00:23:58,960
going to give us actual experiments to

765
00:24:01,669 --> 00:23:59,600
do

766
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:01,679
and we're getting closer you know it's

767
00:24:04,789 --> 00:24:03,360
no point in telling them

768
00:24:06,470 --> 00:24:04,799
there's a lot of actual physics and

769
00:24:08,710 --> 00:24:06,480
astrophysics and so on to be done

770
00:24:11,190 --> 00:24:08,720
to work out exactly what to look for but

771
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:11,200
i mean another direction here that that

772
00:24:15,029 --> 00:24:14,080
uh is well there's several directions i

773
00:24:18,789 --> 00:24:15,039
mean one is

774
00:24:20,870 --> 00:24:18,799
kind of understanding um

775
00:24:23,430 --> 00:24:20,880
i've had sort of in the last few months

776
00:24:26,470 --> 00:24:23,440
kind of a deeper understanding

777
00:24:27,669 --> 00:24:26,480
of uh what kind of observers of the

778
00:24:31,590 --> 00:24:27,679
universe we actually

779
00:24:33,190 --> 00:24:31,600
are and how consciousness relates to

780
00:24:34,950 --> 00:24:33,200
what kinds of things we do and don't

781
00:24:36,630 --> 00:24:34,960
observe about the universe and what

782
00:24:38,549 --> 00:24:36,640
consequences that has

783
00:24:40,230 --> 00:24:38,559
for the kinds of laws the kinds of

784
00:24:41,350 --> 00:24:40,240
physical laws that we believe are going

785
00:24:44,070 --> 00:24:41,360
on in the universe

786
00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:44,080
that's one direction another direction

787
00:24:48,149 --> 00:24:45,200
is

788
00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:48,159
trying to understand if we can say yes

789
00:24:51,110 --> 00:24:49,760
we have this simple rule that's updating

790
00:24:51,590 --> 00:24:51,120
this hypergraph and so on and then you

791
00:24:53,350 --> 00:24:51,600
say

792
00:24:55,029 --> 00:24:53,360
why is it that simple rule not another

793
00:24:57,269 --> 00:24:55,039
one what i've realized

794
00:24:58,070 --> 00:24:57,279
recently what we realized a while ago

795
00:25:01,350 --> 00:24:58,080
but it's become

796
00:25:04,710 --> 00:25:01,360
a lot crisper now is this idea

797
00:25:06,310 --> 00:25:04,720
that actually there is the um in some

798
00:25:07,830 --> 00:25:06,320
sense the universe can be running all

799
00:25:11,110 --> 00:25:07,840
possible rules

800
00:25:12,789 --> 00:25:11,120
and we are we are seeing some kind of

801
00:25:15,669 --> 00:25:12,799
reference frame not in

802
00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:15,679
physical space or in branchial space but

803
00:25:19,269 --> 00:25:17,360
in this thing we call rule space the

804
00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:19,279
space of all possible rules

805
00:25:23,909 --> 00:25:22,320
we are essentially picking a particular

806
00:25:25,110 --> 00:25:23,919
description language a particular

807
00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:25,120
reference frame

808
00:25:29,750 --> 00:25:27,200
with which to understand the universe

809
00:25:30,149 --> 00:25:29,760
and so the sort of paradox of why or

810
00:25:33,430 --> 00:25:30,159
this

811
00:25:35,269 --> 00:25:33,440
why does the universe follow one

812
00:25:36,870 --> 00:25:35,279
particular rule and not others

813
00:25:39,190 --> 00:25:36,880
turns out the answer is it follows all

814
00:25:41,669 --> 00:25:39,200
possible rules and we are just

815
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:41,679
at some place in rulial space observing

816
00:25:45,990 --> 00:25:43,120
it in a particular way

817
00:25:48,070 --> 00:25:46,000
and that has the big surprise to me

818
00:25:50,470 --> 00:25:48,080
recently last month or so

819
00:25:52,149 --> 00:25:50,480
has been realizing that i actually think

820
00:25:53,590 --> 00:25:52,159
we can get a serious answer to a

821
00:25:54,630 --> 00:25:53,600
question like why does the universe

822
00:25:56,070 --> 00:25:54,640
exist

823
00:25:57,830 --> 00:25:56,080
and as a matter of fact the thing that

824
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:57,840
comes out of that is

825
00:26:01,669 --> 00:26:00,159
the realization that as soon as we say

826
00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:01,679
the universe exists

827
00:26:05,269 --> 00:26:03,840
and as soon as we give that argument we

828
00:26:06,390 --> 00:26:05,279
are forced into a position that

829
00:26:09,029 --> 00:26:06,400
mathematics

830
00:26:10,230 --> 00:26:09,039
in some sense fundamentally exists too

831
00:26:11,510 --> 00:26:10,240
which is something you know people like

832
00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:11,520
plato have said but

833
00:26:15,029 --> 00:26:12,720
something very different from the way

834
00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:15,039
that people have uh uh

835
00:26:18,710 --> 00:26:16,720
assumed the foundations of mathematics

836
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:18,720
work so you asked me for a three minute

837
00:26:20,789 --> 00:26:20,240
i'm sure that wasn't three minutes but

838
00:26:26,549 --> 00:26:20,799
um

839
00:26:27,350 --> 00:26:26,559
not talked about a lot of the

840
00:26:29,350 --> 00:26:27,360
intuitional

841
00:26:30,870 --> 00:26:29,360
underpinnings that are necessary for

842
00:26:32,149 --> 00:26:30,880
this theory of physics

843
00:26:34,390 --> 00:26:32,159
concepts like the principle of

844
00:26:35,990 --> 00:26:34,400
computational equivalence computational

845
00:26:37,269 --> 00:26:36,000
irreducibility and so on i mean

846
00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:37,279
what's basically happened in the

847
00:26:42,549 --> 00:26:39,440
building of this this theory

848
00:26:43,669 --> 00:26:42,559
is uh it's sort of the result of well

849
00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:43,679
it's i guess it's now

850
00:26:50,070 --> 00:26:47,120
40 years of my uh activities

851
00:26:51,190 --> 00:26:50,080
um that in the first of the first layer

852
00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:51,200
is probably

853
00:26:54,470 --> 00:26:53,760
you know i i used to do sort of

854
00:26:56,470 --> 00:26:54,480
traditional

855
00:26:58,390 --> 00:26:56,480
quantum field theory general relativity

856
00:27:00,390 --> 00:26:58,400
particle physics kinds of things so i

857
00:27:01,510 --> 00:27:00,400
i know that stuff fairly well although

858
00:27:04,149 --> 00:27:01,520
although it's

859
00:27:05,590 --> 00:27:04,159
kind of it's a a rip van winkle type

860
00:27:06,470 --> 00:27:05,600
situation for me because that was 40

861
00:27:09,590 --> 00:27:06,480
years ago

862
00:27:11,350 --> 00:27:09,600
and i'm right now kind of um it's it

863
00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:11,360
hasn't changed as much as you might have

864
00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:12,960
thought a field might change like if i

865
00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:13,440
look at

866
00:27:16,710 --> 00:27:15,600
biology over that period of time you

867
00:27:18,310 --> 00:27:16,720
know there were all these things in

868
00:27:20,710 --> 00:27:18,320
biology where it's like i learned stuff

869
00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:20,720
about cells 40 years ago 45 years ago

870
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:21,360
whatever

871
00:27:24,549 --> 00:27:23,120
and it was like that's an organelle of

872
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:24,559
unknown function

873
00:27:28,950 --> 00:27:26,880
and now there's a whole you know vast

874
00:27:30,950 --> 00:27:28,960
journals devoted to exactly what you

875
00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:30,960
know the golgi complex does or something

876
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:32,559
something like this so so in a sense

877
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:34,080
that field has advanced a lot more than

878
00:27:38,230 --> 00:27:35,760
physics over that period of time

879
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:38,240
but i think um the uh you know sort of

880
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:39,840
that layer then there's the layer that

881
00:27:43,190 --> 00:27:40,640
i've spent

882
00:27:44,070 --> 00:27:43,200
years building practical technology for

883
00:27:47,190 --> 00:27:44,080
actually

884
00:27:50,310 --> 00:27:47,200
computing things and uh both

885
00:27:51,830 --> 00:27:50,320
the the level of understanding of how

886
00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:51,840
formal systems work

887
00:27:55,190 --> 00:27:53,200
that has come with the process of

888
00:27:56,549 --> 00:27:55,200
designing wolfram language and

889
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:56,559
mathematica and so on

890
00:28:00,710 --> 00:27:58,320
that has been really critical to what we

891
00:28:01,029 --> 00:28:00,720
built and then the very practicalities

892
00:28:02,549 --> 00:28:01,039
of

893
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:02,559
you know so we actually have an

894
00:28:06,789 --> 00:28:04,799
environment in which to do experiments

895
00:28:08,230 --> 00:28:06,799
we can you know do graph theory easily

896
00:28:10,710 --> 00:28:08,240
and things like this

897
00:28:11,350 --> 00:28:10,720
and then the whole new kind of science

898
00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:11,360
development

899
00:28:15,909 --> 00:28:14,240
of what simple programs do understanding

900
00:28:16,710 --> 00:28:15,919
principles of that and so on and i

901
00:28:19,110 --> 00:28:16,720
realized there's a

902
00:28:21,190 --> 00:28:19,120
there's in the end a fairly tall tower

903
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:21,200
that we've ended up relying on

904
00:28:27,510 --> 00:28:24,640
uh to uh uh to kind of construct

905
00:28:28,870 --> 00:28:27,520
this theory and i you know to me is this

906
00:28:31,510 --> 00:28:28,880
funny feeling because

907
00:28:32,230 --> 00:28:31,520
you know i'm i'm really excited that we

908
00:28:34,149 --> 00:28:32,240
managed to

909
00:28:35,909 --> 00:28:34,159
get this done and it's gone a lot better

910
00:28:37,750 --> 00:28:35,919
than i expected it would go

911
00:28:39,990 --> 00:28:37,760
but it almost didn't happen i mean it

912
00:28:42,070 --> 00:28:40,000
very very nearly didn't happen

913
00:28:43,110 --> 00:28:42,080
and you know the question that i might

914
00:28:45,430 --> 00:28:43,120
ask myself is

915
00:28:47,190 --> 00:28:45,440
if it hadn't happened when would it have

916
00:28:50,070 --> 00:28:47,200
happened otherwise

917
00:28:50,870 --> 00:28:50,080
and the answer is i don't know 50 years

918
00:28:53,350 --> 00:28:50,880
100 years

919
00:28:54,070 --> 00:28:53,360
i don't know it wasn't it wasn't a thing

920
00:28:56,070 --> 00:28:54,080
where

921
00:28:57,830 --> 00:28:56,080
you know it wasn't like all the stars

922
00:28:59,510 --> 00:28:57,840
were lined up for everybody so to speak

923
00:29:01,830 --> 00:28:59,520
it was a particular

924
00:29:03,430 --> 00:29:01,840
series of things that are kind of the

925
00:29:05,269 --> 00:29:03,440
story of my life and then people like

926
00:29:07,909 --> 00:29:05,279
jonathan who had their own

927
00:29:08,389 --> 00:29:07,919
uh things that they bring into this um

928
00:29:11,350 --> 00:29:08,399
you know

929
00:29:12,389 --> 00:29:11,360
it's kind of a an unexpected and unusual

930
00:29:14,789 --> 00:29:12,399
alignment

931
00:29:17,110 --> 00:29:14,799
plus it turned out we managed to get a

932
00:29:20,549 --> 00:29:17,120
lot further than we ever expected to get

933
00:29:21,830 --> 00:29:20,559
so it's some uh anyway that's that's a

934
00:29:25,510 --> 00:29:21,840
little bit of an outline of

935
00:29:28,870 --> 00:29:27,669
where we are i suppose i mean there's

936
00:29:31,190 --> 00:29:28,880
there's a lot more to say about the

937
00:29:33,110 --> 00:29:31,200
details of what's happening with the

938
00:29:34,630 --> 00:29:33,120
models and and how we compute things

939
00:29:36,149 --> 00:29:34,640
from them and so on but

940
00:29:37,990 --> 00:29:36,159
you ask for a basic introduction that's

941
00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:38,000
my attempt to the basic introduction

942
00:29:41,350 --> 00:29:39,600
what's the difference between the causal

943
00:29:43,909 --> 00:29:41,360
graph and the multi-way graph

944
00:29:44,950 --> 00:29:43,919
is one a transitive reduction of the

945
00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:44,960
other are they the same

946
00:29:48,389 --> 00:29:47,360
no no they're different kinds of things

947
00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:48,399
so

948
00:29:55,750 --> 00:29:55,440
graphs oh look there we go there's a

949
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:55,760
nice

950
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:57,520
this is a multi-way or a causal that's a

951
00:30:00,630 --> 00:29:59,840
causal graph that that thing is a causal

952
00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:00,640
graph

953
00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:04,240
so okay sorry there are a lot of kinds

954
00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:05,600
of graphs running around

955
00:30:09,269 --> 00:30:07,360
that's right that's fine and each one of

956
00:30:10,630 --> 00:30:09,279
these nodes represents a hypergraph in

957
00:30:11,990 --> 00:30:10,640
and of itself and then these lines

958
00:30:13,830 --> 00:30:12,000
represent updating rules that's

959
00:30:16,389 --> 00:30:13,840
that's a causal graph so that that's a

960
00:30:16,870 --> 00:30:16,399
no each one of those nodes represents an

961
00:30:22,310 --> 00:30:16,880
event

962
00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:22,320
okay let's let's go through the kinds of

963
00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:23,440
graphs

964
00:30:27,510 --> 00:30:26,399
so first kind of graph is the spatial

965
00:30:30,310 --> 00:30:27,520
hypograph

966
00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:30,320
that represents the structure of space

967
00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:30,720
its

968
00:30:41,350 --> 00:30:38,000
are relations between atoms of space

969
00:30:43,909 --> 00:30:41,360
okay and at any moment in time

970
00:30:44,389 --> 00:30:43,919
you can imagine that you've taken a

971
00:30:46,789 --> 00:30:44,399
slice

972
00:30:48,470 --> 00:30:46,799
representing the current moment in time

973
00:30:50,789 --> 00:30:48,480
there is a spatial hypergraph that

974
00:30:52,870 --> 00:30:50,799
represents the structure of the universe

975
00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:52,880
okay so that's first first level of

976
00:30:58,470 --> 00:30:54,960
graph the second thing is

977
00:31:02,950 --> 00:30:58,480
that graph then evolves and it evolves

978
00:31:06,070 --> 00:31:02,960
by events that take a particular

979
00:31:08,310 --> 00:31:06,080
set of hyper edges combine them together

980
00:31:10,310 --> 00:31:08,320
and produce another set of hyper edges

981
00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:10,320
or another some set of atoms of space

982
00:31:12,549 --> 00:31:11,840
that produces another set of atoms of

983
00:31:14,230 --> 00:31:12,559
space

984
00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:14,240
so it's like a you're running all these

985
00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:16,240
little functions you've got you've got

986
00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:16,640
this

987
00:31:24,470 --> 00:31:21,440
structure

988
00:31:26,070 --> 00:31:24,480
with lots of um lots of pieces in it

989
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:26,080
and they're these functions that are

990
00:31:29,350 --> 00:31:27,840
running on particular parts of that data

991
00:31:33,029 --> 00:31:29,360
structure to produce

992
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:33,039
uh new uh pieces of a new data structure

993
00:31:37,509 --> 00:31:36,000
every update event that's an event so

994
00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:37,519
the causal graph

995
00:31:41,509 --> 00:31:39,600
is the network of causal relationships

996
00:31:43,909 --> 00:31:41,519
between those updating events

997
00:31:45,190 --> 00:31:43,919
so why are there why are those updating

998
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:45,200
events connected

999
00:31:48,710 --> 00:31:46,559
well the reason they're connected is

1000
00:31:49,509 --> 00:31:48,720
because a particular updating event

1001
00:31:51,830 --> 00:31:49,519
needs something

1002
00:31:53,909 --> 00:31:51,840
as input it needs to use certain

1003
00:31:54,549 --> 00:31:53,919
hyperedges certain atoms of space as its

1004
00:31:57,269 --> 00:31:54,559
input

1005
00:31:58,149 --> 00:31:57,279
and the question is are those hyperedges

1006
00:32:00,870 --> 00:31:58,159
up to date

1007
00:32:03,430 --> 00:32:00,880
do they have those and so there's a a

1008
00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:03,440
set of causal relationships between

1009
00:32:07,029 --> 00:32:06,080
these updating events where one updating

1010
00:32:11,350 --> 00:32:07,039
event

1011
00:32:14,070 --> 00:32:11,360
can uh it has it is it has a

1012
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:14,080
it has a causal dependence on a previous

1013
00:32:18,149 --> 00:32:15,120
updating event

1014
00:32:19,909 --> 00:32:18,159
so you get this this graph that connects

1015
00:32:21,190 --> 00:32:19,919
that represents the causal relationships

1016
00:32:23,990 --> 00:32:21,200
between updating events

1017
00:32:25,029 --> 00:32:24,000
that's a directed graph uh if you go

1018
00:32:26,710 --> 00:32:25,039
from one event

1019
00:32:28,470 --> 00:32:26,720
and you follow its arrows you're

1020
00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:28,480
basically going into events that are in

1021
00:32:31,909 --> 00:32:29,360
the future

1022
00:32:32,710 --> 00:32:31,919
so those arrows represent a time-like

1023
00:32:34,710 --> 00:32:32,720
path

1024
00:32:36,870 --> 00:32:34,720
just following those arrows is a

1025
00:32:40,470 --> 00:32:36,880
possible time-like path

1026
00:32:43,350 --> 00:32:40,480
so you can also ask two events

1027
00:32:44,950 --> 00:32:43,360
could they happen at the same time so

1028
00:32:46,710 --> 00:32:44,960
there are events that couldn't possibly

1029
00:32:49,029 --> 00:32:46,720
happen at the same time because they are

1030
00:32:50,789 --> 00:32:49,039
they're in a chain one following from

1031
00:32:52,950 --> 00:32:50,799
another in a timeline

1032
00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:52,960
sequence so those couldn't possibly

1033
00:32:55,909 --> 00:32:54,240
happen at the same time

1034
00:32:57,750 --> 00:32:55,919
there's no reference frame there's no

1035
00:32:59,590 --> 00:32:57,760
assignment of simultaneity

1036
00:33:02,389 --> 00:32:59,600
which will allow those things to happen

1037
00:33:05,110 --> 00:33:02,399
at the same time so what what can occur

1038
00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:05,120
is that but in this it's a partially

1039
00:33:10,310 --> 00:33:06,240
ordered set

1040
00:33:13,350 --> 00:33:10,320
of updating events and in that post set

1041
00:33:15,509 --> 00:33:13,360
there are things where you can have

1042
00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:15,519
two updating events which can be

1043
00:33:18,789 --> 00:33:17,279
considered to happen at the same time

1044
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:18,799
you can have a reference frame

1045
00:33:21,909 --> 00:33:20,880
where those two updating events could

1046
00:33:23,509 --> 00:33:21,919
happen happen

1047
00:33:25,590 --> 00:33:23,519
you say they happen at the same time you

1048
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:25,600
couldn't do that if they were in a chain

1049
00:33:28,710 --> 00:33:26,640
one after the other

1050
00:33:31,029 --> 00:33:28,720
but you can do that if they're in what

1051
00:33:33,990 --> 00:33:31,039
in post-set language is an anti-chain

1052
00:33:36,149 --> 00:33:34,000
yeah a doodle correspond to the

1053
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:36,159
different lines that are separating

1054
00:33:40,070 --> 00:33:38,480
which i imagine they're separating into

1055
00:33:43,029 --> 00:33:40,080
quote-unquote branches of space

1056
00:33:45,350 --> 00:33:43,039
possible that's a possible foliation of

1057
00:33:48,389 --> 00:33:45,360
that causal graph so what that means is

1058
00:33:51,350 --> 00:33:48,399
that that is a possible choice of what

1059
00:33:52,070 --> 00:33:51,360
updating events should be considered

1060
00:33:54,070 --> 00:33:52,080
simultaneous

1061
00:33:55,430 --> 00:33:54,080
to what other ones and just like in

1062
00:33:57,750 --> 00:33:55,440
relativity theory

1063
00:33:59,430 --> 00:33:57,760
there are multiple different possible

1064
00:34:01,990 --> 00:33:59,440
foliations of space-time

1065
00:34:03,750 --> 00:34:02,000
so there are multiple different uh

1066
00:34:05,590 --> 00:34:03,760
choices of what you consider to be

1067
00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:05,600
simultaneous so to speak

1068
00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:09,520
um and that uh that's the um

1069
00:34:15,349 --> 00:34:12,720
so the causal graph okay the the

1070
00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:15,359
the ordinary causal graph is the network

1071
00:34:20,310 --> 00:34:17,200
of causal relationships

1072
00:34:23,829 --> 00:34:20,320
between updating events in

1073
00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:23,839
space or in space time now

1074
00:34:27,430 --> 00:34:26,560
okay so that's that's one level of graph

1075
00:34:29,430 --> 00:34:27,440
the other

1076
00:34:30,950 --> 00:34:29,440
the next thing that we can talk about is

1077
00:34:33,750 --> 00:34:30,960
the multi-way graph

1078
00:34:33,990 --> 00:34:33,760
and then not to sound too confusing but

1079
00:34:37,270 --> 00:34:34,000
there's

1080
00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:37,280
also a multi-way causal graph um ah ah

1081
00:34:40,230 --> 00:34:38,240
okay okay

1082
00:34:41,349 --> 00:34:40,240
and the multi-way causal graph is just

1083
00:34:43,589 --> 00:34:41,359
so you know stephen i

1084
00:34:45,430 --> 00:34:43,599
i read virtually each one of the archive

1085
00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:45,440
papers and for some reason this

1086
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:46,720
is a sticking point for me what's the

1087
00:34:50,069 --> 00:34:48,480
causal graph versus the multi-way graph

1088
00:34:52,230 --> 00:34:50,079
are they the same while they're defined

1089
00:34:53,990 --> 00:34:52,240
in the same document so it'd be unlikely

1090
00:34:55,510 --> 00:34:54,000
i i wrote this kind of technical

1091
00:34:56,470 --> 00:34:55,520
introduction to our project where i have

1092
00:34:57,910 --> 00:34:56,480
an appendix

1093
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:57,920
that simply lists all the different

1094
00:35:01,510 --> 00:34:59,760
kinds of graphs because i knew people

1095
00:35:02,950 --> 00:35:01,520
and one of the things that was you know

1096
00:35:04,310 --> 00:35:02,960
there's a practicality of doing a big

1097
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:04,320
project like this

1098
00:35:08,470 --> 00:35:06,640
you know there was a funny moment when

1099
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:08,480
we did the colors

1100
00:35:12,069 --> 00:35:10,720
for all these graphs because what we

1101
00:35:13,430 --> 00:35:12,079
realized is you know you're just drawing

1102
00:35:14,470 --> 00:35:13,440
all these graphs and you see one of

1103
00:35:16,550 --> 00:35:14,480
these graphs and it's like

1104
00:35:18,230 --> 00:35:16,560
what on earth is this and we realized if

1105
00:35:19,349 --> 00:35:18,240
we have consistent coloring of these

1106
00:35:21,030 --> 00:35:19,359
different graphs

1107
00:35:23,510 --> 00:35:21,040
at least as soon as you see a graph you

1108
00:35:24,069 --> 00:35:23,520
say i mean we kind of joke that there's

1109
00:35:26,550 --> 00:35:24,079
this

1110
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:26,560
color we call branchial pink which is

1111
00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:28,480
the color of our branchial graphs which

1112
00:35:31,270 --> 00:35:30,000
is yet another kind of we haven't even

1113
00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:31,280
talked about yet

1114
00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:34,640
um but uh you know the the um uh

1115
00:35:37,670 --> 00:35:36,480
the causal graph we have you know the

1116
00:35:40,470 --> 00:35:37,680
events are in yellow

1117
00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:40,480
the edges are in brown the spatial graph

1118
00:35:44,230 --> 00:35:42,160
it's all sort of blue

1119
00:35:45,670 --> 00:35:44,240
um and the multi-way graph well let's

1120
00:35:48,550 --> 00:35:45,680
talk about the multi-way graph

1121
00:35:49,430 --> 00:35:48,560
so the multi-way graph in the simplest

1122
00:35:51,190 --> 00:35:49,440
form

1123
00:35:53,510 --> 00:35:51,200
the nodes of the multi-way graph are

1124
00:35:55,750 --> 00:35:53,520
complete states of the universe

1125
00:35:57,190 --> 00:35:55,760
so the paths in the multi-way graph

1126
00:35:58,950 --> 00:35:57,200
correspond to

1127
00:36:00,230 --> 00:35:58,960
possible histories for the whole

1128
00:36:02,390 --> 00:36:00,240
universe

1129
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:02,400
um now that's what we might call the

1130
00:36:06,230 --> 00:36:04,160
global multi-way graph

1131
00:36:07,829 --> 00:36:06,240
um there's been a big effort max

1132
00:36:09,589 --> 00:36:07,839
piskanov has been the main one

1133
00:36:11,190 --> 00:36:09,599
sort of pushing this to have these

1134
00:36:12,950 --> 00:36:11,200
things we can call local multi-way

1135
00:36:14,630 --> 00:36:12,960
graphs

1136
00:36:17,190 --> 00:36:14,640
they're hard to understand but they're

1137
00:36:19,349 --> 00:36:17,200
important and they will help us to

1138
00:36:21,829 --> 00:36:19,359
understand quantum field theory a lot

1139
00:36:23,510 --> 00:36:21,839
but they just uh they're there but the

1140
00:36:25,270 --> 00:36:23,520
global multi-way graph

1141
00:36:26,630 --> 00:36:25,280
every node is a complete state of the

1142
00:36:29,750 --> 00:36:26,640
universe

1143
00:36:33,349 --> 00:36:29,760
and so so then

1144
00:36:36,390 --> 00:36:33,359
the multi-way causal graph is asking

1145
00:36:38,470 --> 00:36:36,400
of those complete states of the universe

1146
00:36:39,510 --> 00:36:38,480
what are the causal relationships

1147
00:36:42,710 --> 00:36:39,520
between

1148
00:36:44,470 --> 00:36:42,720
universe

1149
00:36:47,109 --> 00:36:44,480
and that gives us the multi-way causal

1150
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:47,119
graph and the the ordinary multi-way

1151
00:36:51,670 --> 00:36:50,400
of the ordinary causal graph is a is a

1152
00:36:53,510 --> 00:36:51,680
is a kind of a slice

1153
00:36:54,870 --> 00:36:53,520
of the multi-way causal graph so the

1154
00:36:56,150 --> 00:36:54,880
multi-way causal graph

1155
00:36:58,069 --> 00:36:56,160
represents the set of causal

1156
00:37:00,710 --> 00:36:58,079
relationships including

1157
00:37:02,710 --> 00:37:00,720
both things that could happen at

1158
00:37:04,150 --> 00:37:02,720
different places in space

1159
00:37:05,910 --> 00:37:04,160
and things that can happen on different

1160
00:37:08,150 --> 00:37:05,920
branches of history so

1161
00:37:09,510 --> 00:37:08,160
one talks about events being time-like

1162
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:09,520
separated that is one

1163
00:37:12,790 --> 00:37:11,520
they follow from each other in time

1164
00:37:14,470 --> 00:37:12,800
another possibility is that they're

1165
00:37:16,950 --> 00:37:14,480
space-like separated

1166
00:37:19,109 --> 00:37:16,960
that is those events correspond could

1167
00:37:22,069 --> 00:37:19,119
correspond to the same time

1168
00:37:23,910 --> 00:37:22,079
but they are separated in space there's

1169
00:37:25,510 --> 00:37:23,920
a third possibility which is they can be

1170
00:37:26,950 --> 00:37:25,520
branch-like separated

1171
00:37:29,109 --> 00:37:26,960
which means that they're occurring on

1172
00:37:30,870 --> 00:37:29,119
different branches of quantum history

1173
00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:30,880
and so there's all three of those time

1174
00:37:34,310 --> 00:37:32,640
like separation space like separation

1175
00:37:37,030 --> 00:37:34,320
branch-like separation

1176
00:37:38,950 --> 00:37:37,040
in the multi-way causal graph all three

1177
00:37:41,990 --> 00:37:38,960
kinds of separation occur

1178
00:37:44,790 --> 00:37:42,000
and um the the question of which one

1179
00:37:46,470 --> 00:37:44,800
uh you know any two events can be both

1180
00:37:47,190 --> 00:37:46,480
space-like separated and branch-like

1181
00:37:48,550 --> 00:37:47,200
separated

1182
00:37:50,630 --> 00:37:48,560
or they can be just branch-like

1183
00:37:52,870 --> 00:37:50,640
separated and so on and

1184
00:37:53,750 --> 00:37:52,880
that's a that object the multi-wave

1185
00:37:56,230 --> 00:37:53,760
causal graph

1186
00:37:57,910 --> 00:37:56,240
okay so for the spatial hypograph we

1187
00:37:59,510 --> 00:37:57,920
believe that it's continuum limit when

1188
00:38:01,510 --> 00:37:59,520
you look at a large number of nodes

1189
00:38:02,630 --> 00:38:01,520
is like ordinary spaces like a manifold

1190
00:38:06,069 --> 00:38:02,640
it's like um

1191
00:38:07,990 --> 00:38:06,079
uh for the uh for the multi

1192
00:38:09,829 --> 00:38:08,000
for the ordinary causal graph it's the

1193
00:38:10,870 --> 00:38:09,839
same kind of thing it's like a minkowski

1194
00:38:13,829 --> 00:38:10,880
space it's like

1195
00:38:14,790 --> 00:38:13,839
the space you probably know that that

1196
00:38:17,109 --> 00:38:14,800
ordinary

1197
00:38:17,990 --> 00:38:17,119
you know something like euclidean space

1198
00:38:20,470 --> 00:38:18,000
has this feature

1199
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:20,480
that you can move one way you can move

1200
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:21,839
back you know every

1201
00:38:25,750 --> 00:38:23,760
every path you can go down you can you

1202
00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:25,760
can reverse it and go the other way

1203
00:38:29,670 --> 00:38:27,520
right that's a feature of ordinary space

1204
00:38:33,030 --> 00:38:29,680
i can move this way i can move that way

1205
00:38:34,710 --> 00:38:33,040
um in space time that's not how it works

1206
00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:34,720
we get to go forwards in time we don't

1207
00:38:39,510 --> 00:38:36,400
get to go backwards in time

1208
00:38:41,190 --> 00:38:39,520
and so that corresponds to the limit the

1209
00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:41,200
limiting structure is not euclidean

1210
00:38:44,950 --> 00:38:43,040
space but a minkowski space

1211
00:38:46,550 --> 00:38:44,960
and so that's the same kind of thing

1212
00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:46,560
with our causal graph

1213
00:38:49,990 --> 00:38:48,640
the limiting structure is a minkowski

1214
00:38:51,510 --> 00:38:50,000
signature space

1215
00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:51,520
that is it can be in general a curved

1216
00:38:56,230 --> 00:38:54,240
space just like in general relativity

1217
00:38:57,829 --> 00:38:56,240
the multi-way causal graph we don't

1218
00:38:59,349 --> 00:38:57,839
understand very well yet what its

1219
00:39:02,630 --> 00:38:59,359
continuum limit is

1220
00:39:04,230 --> 00:39:02,640
it's a it's a weird kind of minkowski

1221
00:39:07,349 --> 00:39:04,240
like hilbert space

1222
00:39:09,349 --> 00:39:07,359
interesting and um it it a special case

1223
00:39:12,470 --> 00:39:09,359
of it is probably twister space

1224
00:39:13,109 --> 00:39:12,480
which is um uh this idea that's this

1225
00:39:14,630 --> 00:39:13,119
kind of neat

1226
00:39:17,270 --> 00:39:14,640
trick with complex numbers that roger

1227
00:39:20,150 --> 00:39:17,280
penrose invented back in the 1960s

1228
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:20,160
as a way to understand um uh well to

1229
00:39:22,870 --> 00:39:21,520
think about sort of quantum mechanics

1230
00:39:24,550 --> 00:39:22,880
and space time and so on

1231
00:39:25,910 --> 00:39:24,560
but it's it's a that seems to be a

1232
00:39:26,950 --> 00:39:25,920
special case of the multi-way causal

1233
00:39:28,470 --> 00:39:26,960
graph but there's a

1234
00:39:30,870 --> 00:39:28,480
there needs to be a generalization of

1235
00:39:33,430 --> 00:39:30,880
that made to be able to um

1236
00:39:35,109 --> 00:39:33,440
uh to see how to um to see what that

1237
00:39:36,870 --> 00:39:35,119
continuum limit looks like

1238
00:39:38,870 --> 00:39:36,880
and and we can keep going and it's

1239
00:39:40,950 --> 00:39:38,880
things get wilder i mean we start

1240
00:39:43,829 --> 00:39:40,960
talking about some

1241
00:39:45,190 --> 00:39:43,839
oh well i mean the the yeah i mean there

1242
00:39:46,470 --> 00:39:45,200
are a lot of kinds of graphs running

1243
00:39:48,790 --> 00:39:46,480
around here

1244
00:39:50,390 --> 00:39:48,800
does causal invariance apply to one of

1245
00:39:51,430 --> 00:39:50,400
the graphs not the others or all the

1246
00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:51,440
graphs

1247
00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:53,359
causal variance is a feature of causal

1248
00:39:57,990 --> 00:39:54,720
graphs and

1249
00:39:59,829 --> 00:39:58,000
what it is telling you is that well

1250
00:40:01,750 --> 00:39:59,839
it's also a feature of multi-way graphs

1251
00:40:03,670 --> 00:40:01,760
let me be specific there's the condition

1252
00:40:05,270 --> 00:40:03,680
placed of causal invariance is that one

1253
00:40:08,069 --> 00:40:05,280
placed on the causal graph or is that

1254
00:40:09,750 --> 00:40:08,079
one placed on the multi-way graph

1255
00:40:11,030 --> 00:40:09,760
it applies to both it has it has

1256
00:40:12,230 --> 00:40:11,040
consequences for both of them they're

1257
00:40:13,990 --> 00:40:12,240
different consequences

1258
00:40:16,470 --> 00:40:14,000
the consequence of the multi-way graph

1259
00:40:17,990 --> 00:40:16,480
is it implies that in a simple

1260
00:40:19,829 --> 00:40:18,000
sense in simple sense which isn't

1261
00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:19,839
completely correct it says

1262
00:40:22,870 --> 00:40:21,760
every time there's a branch there's also

1263
00:40:25,750 --> 00:40:22,880
a merge

1264
00:40:27,589 --> 00:40:25,760
every every time the the the the the

1265
00:40:29,270 --> 00:40:27,599
pods of history diverge they will also

1266
00:40:31,349 --> 00:40:29,280
converge in the future

1267
00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:31,359
now it isn't that's confluence correct

1268
00:40:34,630 --> 00:40:33,040
that's confluence that's right okay

1269
00:40:36,550 --> 00:40:34,640
the and and causal and variance is a

1270
00:40:38,630 --> 00:40:36,560
generalization of that that also applies

1271
00:40:40,870 --> 00:40:38,640
to the infinite time case

1272
00:40:42,710 --> 00:40:40,880
right okay so one of the conditions for

1273
00:40:43,270 --> 00:40:42,720
causal or causal invariance implies

1274
00:40:46,870 --> 00:40:43,280
global

1275
00:40:48,630 --> 00:40:46,880
confluence what else is necessary

1276
00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:48,640
for causal invariance so one of the

1277
00:40:52,870 --> 00:40:50,880
conditions is global confluence

1278
00:40:54,230 --> 00:40:52,880
yes i mean it's its own separate

1279
00:40:57,430 --> 00:40:54,240
condition i mean it's a

1280
00:40:59,670 --> 00:40:57,440
it's a condition what it implies is that

1281
00:41:02,710 --> 00:40:59,680
the multi-way causal graph

1282
00:41:05,990 --> 00:41:02,720
breaks down into a whole collection of

1283
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:06,000
individual non-multi-way single-way

1284
00:41:10,309 --> 00:41:08,880
causal graphs that is given a particular

1285
00:41:13,589 --> 00:41:10,319
branch of history

1286
00:41:15,510 --> 00:41:13,599
there is a a a causal graph and that

1287
00:41:17,910 --> 00:41:15,520
causal graph is independent of the

1288
00:41:18,790 --> 00:41:17,920
of the microscopic order of updates so

1289
00:41:20,390 --> 00:41:18,800
in other words

1290
00:41:21,910 --> 00:41:20,400
the whole idea of causal variance which

1291
00:41:25,030 --> 00:41:21,920
was sort of a concept that i

1292
00:41:28,950 --> 00:41:25,040
i came up with in the in the 1990s um

1293
00:41:31,589 --> 00:41:28,960
was um uh this idea of okay so

1294
00:41:33,270 --> 00:41:31,599
you have all these updates and you can

1295
00:41:34,790 --> 00:41:33,280
say well what order should i do these

1296
00:41:37,910 --> 00:41:34,800
updates in

1297
00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:37,920
okay and you can looked at from the

1298
00:41:40,630 --> 00:41:39,200
outside of the system

1299
00:41:42,710 --> 00:41:40,640
you do these updates in different orders

1300
00:41:45,510 --> 00:41:42,720
you'll get different results

1301
00:41:47,109 --> 00:41:45,520
the the interesting fact is when certain

1302
00:41:50,150 --> 00:41:47,119
properties hold

1303
00:41:51,589 --> 00:41:50,160
the causal graph not the individual

1304
00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:51,599
sequence of updatings that you can

1305
00:41:56,069 --> 00:41:52,880
change the order of those

1306
00:41:57,990 --> 00:41:56,079
but the causal graph that connects those

1307
00:42:00,230 --> 00:41:58,000
different updates that gives the causal

1308
00:42:03,030 --> 00:42:00,240
relationships between those updates

1309
00:42:04,390 --> 00:42:03,040
that is the same for systems that are

1310
00:42:05,829 --> 00:42:04,400
causal invariant that's the importance

1311
00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:05,839
of causal and variance

1312
00:42:10,470 --> 00:42:08,720
is that the causal graph remains the

1313
00:42:12,870 --> 00:42:10,480
same and that's what pretty directly

1314
00:42:16,069 --> 00:42:12,880
leads to special relativity

1315
00:42:18,309 --> 00:42:16,079
so it's a feature of uh that's

1316
00:42:19,109 --> 00:42:18,319
that's a feature that the causal graph

1317
00:42:21,910 --> 00:42:19,119
is a unique

1318
00:42:23,829 --> 00:42:21,920
causal graph it could be the case that

1319
00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:23,839
as you do different updating orders for

1320
00:42:25,990 --> 00:42:24,480
things

1321
00:42:28,230 --> 00:42:26,000
that you end up with different causal

1322
00:42:31,510 --> 00:42:28,240
graphs but you don't

1323
00:42:32,230 --> 00:42:31,520
and and so that's the feature of causal

1324
00:42:34,710 --> 00:42:32,240
invariance

1325
00:42:35,829 --> 00:42:34,720
that gives you a unique causal graph and

1326
00:42:38,150 --> 00:42:35,839
that's why

1327
00:42:39,270 --> 00:42:38,160
sort of played in the in the relativity

1328
00:42:41,349 --> 00:42:39,280
situation

1329
00:42:42,870 --> 00:42:41,359
that's why different choices of

1330
00:42:44,630 --> 00:42:42,880
reference frames give you the same

1331
00:42:45,670 --> 00:42:44,640
physics that's the sort of underlying

1332
00:42:48,630 --> 00:42:45,680
cause of that

1333
00:42:51,270 --> 00:42:48,640
of that effect now you know what we've

1334
00:42:54,390 --> 00:42:51,280
understood in more recently

1335
00:42:55,829 --> 00:42:54,400
is causal variance can be an effective

1336
00:42:57,510 --> 00:42:55,839
causal invariance

1337
00:42:59,349 --> 00:42:57,520
that can be a kind of trickle-down

1338
00:43:02,630 --> 00:42:59,359
effect from

1339
00:43:03,990 --> 00:43:02,640
something much more uh

1340
00:43:06,870 --> 00:43:04,000
well again it's kind of complicated

1341
00:43:10,390 --> 00:43:06,880
because this is a an idea of jonathan's

1342
00:43:13,270 --> 00:43:10,400
is sort of to induce causal invariants

1343
00:43:14,230 --> 00:43:13,280
through what are called completions in

1344
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:14,240
the

1345
00:43:23,990 --> 00:43:20,640
think is becoming clear

1346
00:43:25,670 --> 00:43:24,000
is that that we had thought

1347
00:43:26,790 --> 00:43:25,680
oh there are all these possible rules

1348
00:43:27,589 --> 00:43:26,800
only some of them will be causal

1349
00:43:29,829 --> 00:43:27,599
invariant

1350
00:43:31,910 --> 00:43:29,839
but it turns out that by the time we're

1351
00:43:34,790 --> 00:43:31,920
looking at kind of the trickle down

1352
00:43:35,589 --> 00:43:34,800
from this uh sort of universal possible

1353
00:43:37,829 --> 00:43:35,599
rules

1354
00:43:38,870 --> 00:43:37,839
there is an inevitable effect of causal

1355
00:43:41,030 --> 00:43:38,880
invariance there

1356
00:43:43,030 --> 00:43:41,040
so we we don't have to worry about oh

1357
00:43:44,870 --> 00:43:43,040
can we find a particular rule

1358
00:43:46,390 --> 00:43:44,880
that has these causal variance features

1359
00:43:47,190 --> 00:43:46,400
this this is a bit complicated and i'm

1360
00:43:48,790 --> 00:43:47,200
skipping

1361
00:43:50,230 --> 00:43:48,800
many steps and talking about this but

1362
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:50,240
i'm trying to give a sense that

1363
00:43:53,910 --> 00:43:51,680
that causal variance which we had

1364
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:53,920
thought was a kind of a special property

1365
00:43:56,630 --> 00:43:55,280
it's like you know be a prime number

1366
00:43:58,950 --> 00:43:56,640
rather than just be a number

1367
00:44:00,390 --> 00:43:58,960
it's kind of inevitable the level of

1368
00:44:02,230 --> 00:44:00,400
causal variance needed is sort of an

1369
00:44:04,230 --> 00:44:02,240
inevitable consequence

1370
00:44:05,829 --> 00:44:04,240
of this sort of trickle down from

1371
00:44:06,710 --> 00:44:05,839
thinking about all possible rules for

1372
00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:06,720
the universe

1373
00:44:10,790 --> 00:44:08,960
this is a detail but never mind this

1374
00:44:12,470 --> 00:44:10,800
never mind this

1375
00:44:14,309 --> 00:44:12,480
um what are you what i haven't seen much

1376
00:44:15,990 --> 00:44:14,319
of an exploration of in the archive

1377
00:44:16,870 --> 00:44:16,000
papers is rulial space and that could

1378
00:44:19,109 --> 00:44:16,880
just be because

1379
00:44:19,990 --> 00:44:19,119
i haven't read the right ones okay so so

1380
00:44:23,589 --> 00:44:20,000
i i wrote

1381
00:44:25,750 --> 00:44:23,599
one uh piece about rule space

1382
00:44:27,510 --> 00:44:25,760
investigating a particular example of it

1383
00:44:30,390 --> 00:44:27,520
for touring machines

1384
00:44:31,910 --> 00:44:30,400
um and uh you know it's a very junior

1385
00:44:33,430 --> 00:44:31,920
version of the universe so to speak to

1386
00:44:34,069 --> 00:44:33,440
imagine the universe is just a turing

1387
00:44:36,630 --> 00:44:34,079
machine

1388
00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:36,640
so you know turing it just has this tape

1389
00:44:39,430 --> 00:44:37,200
where

1390
00:44:41,190 --> 00:44:39,440
there's uh symbols written on the tape

1391
00:44:42,710 --> 00:44:41,200
ones or zeros for example

1392
00:44:44,550 --> 00:44:42,720
and there's the turing machine has this

1393
00:44:47,589 --> 00:44:44,560
head that's walking up and down the

1394
00:44:51,109 --> 00:44:47,599
tape and um according to fixed

1395
00:44:53,270 --> 00:44:51,119
rules so

1396
00:44:55,270 --> 00:44:53,280
an ordinary turing machine just has a

1397
00:44:58,309 --> 00:44:55,280
fixed set of rules so it sees

1398
00:45:00,069 --> 00:44:58,319
a particular symbol on the tape it looks

1399
00:45:00,630 --> 00:45:00,079
up its sort of table for what it should

1400
00:45:02,390 --> 00:45:00,640
do

1401
00:45:03,670 --> 00:45:02,400
it moves the left or the right it writes

1402
00:45:05,109 --> 00:45:03,680
a different symbol on the tape

1403
00:45:07,270 --> 00:45:05,119
that's what an ordinary turing machine

1404
00:45:08,550 --> 00:45:07,280
does you can also have a multi-way

1405
00:45:10,230 --> 00:45:08,560
turing machine

1406
00:45:12,630 --> 00:45:10,240
where just like all these other

1407
00:45:14,630 --> 00:45:12,640
multi-way systems instead of it doing a

1408
00:45:16,309 --> 00:45:14,640
definite thing at every step

1409
00:45:17,750 --> 00:45:16,319
it has multiple things that it can do at

1410
00:45:19,510 --> 00:45:17,760
each step and so that

1411
00:45:21,910 --> 00:45:19,520
you then end up getting this multi-way

1412
00:45:22,550 --> 00:45:21,920
graph of possible histories of turing

1413
00:45:24,309 --> 00:45:22,560
machines

1414
00:45:26,069 --> 00:45:24,319
yeah okay so then what you can do is you

1415
00:45:27,990 --> 00:45:26,079
can say well let me consider all

1416
00:45:30,790 --> 00:45:28,000
possible touring machines

1417
00:45:31,670 --> 00:45:30,800
interesting so that then is rulial space

1418
00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:31,680
that's a that's

1419
00:45:35,510 --> 00:45:33,119
in this particular example with this

1420
00:45:36,870 --> 00:45:35,520
particular coordination that is a rule

1421
00:45:39,990 --> 00:45:36,880
space of turing machines

1422
00:45:41,910 --> 00:45:40,000
where you're looking at the maximally uh

1423
00:45:43,030 --> 00:45:41,920
sort of non-deterministic turing machine

1424
00:45:46,069 --> 00:45:43,040
the turing machine

1425
00:45:49,109 --> 00:45:46,079
that where it can do any possible thing

1426
00:45:51,349 --> 00:45:49,119
um and that so

1427
00:45:52,550 --> 00:45:51,359
so one of the things that is interesting

1428
00:45:54,150 --> 00:45:52,560
is you might say

1429
00:45:56,630 --> 00:45:54,160
well if it can do any possible thing how

1430
00:45:57,910 --> 00:45:56,640
come there's any structure to the space

1431
00:45:59,750 --> 00:45:57,920
the reason there's a structure to the

1432
00:46:01,109 --> 00:45:59,760
space is the following you're saying i'm

1433
00:46:02,309 --> 00:46:01,119
starting off all possible touring

1434
00:46:04,710 --> 00:46:02,319
machines

1435
00:46:05,750 --> 00:46:04,720
and they do all possible things but the

1436
00:46:08,069 --> 00:46:05,760
point is that

1437
00:46:09,589 --> 00:46:08,079
two turing machines that start the same

1438
00:46:10,790 --> 00:46:09,599
and then branch into two different

1439
00:46:12,870 --> 00:46:10,800
states

1440
00:46:14,950 --> 00:46:12,880
it can be the case that those turing

1441
00:46:16,470 --> 00:46:14,960
machines can also merge that is those

1442
00:46:19,670 --> 00:46:16,480
two different states

1443
00:46:22,309 --> 00:46:19,680
can both end up uh

1444
00:46:23,430 --> 00:46:22,319
being being transformed to the same

1445
00:46:25,589 --> 00:46:23,440
state so

1446
00:46:27,510 --> 00:46:25,599
that phenomenon that when you have many

1447
00:46:30,550 --> 00:46:27,520
possible states

1448
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:30,560
and you apply many possible rules

1449
00:46:33,030 --> 00:46:31,680
you can end up with something where

1450
00:46:34,309 --> 00:46:33,040
there's sort of this entanglement

1451
00:46:36,790 --> 00:46:34,319
between states

1452
00:46:37,910 --> 00:46:36,800
induced by the use of these rules so in

1453
00:46:40,470 --> 00:46:37,920
a sense it's this

1454
00:46:41,829 --> 00:46:40,480
it's the fact that identical states

1455
00:46:45,109 --> 00:46:41,839
merge

1456
00:46:46,790 --> 00:46:45,119
that leads to a kind of entanglement in

1457
00:46:48,790 --> 00:46:46,800
this multi-way graph

1458
00:46:49,990 --> 00:46:48,800
and that's what makes rural space

1459
00:46:52,550 --> 00:46:50,000
non-trivial

1460
00:46:53,670 --> 00:46:52,560
and so then the question is what is this

1461
00:46:57,349 --> 00:46:53,680
limit

1462
00:46:59,270 --> 00:46:57,359
of um uh

1463
00:47:01,670 --> 00:46:59,280
you know when you have when you have

1464
00:47:04,069 --> 00:47:01,680
this limit of of all possible

1465
00:47:05,829 --> 00:47:04,079
rules being applied what is the thing

1466
00:47:07,270 --> 00:47:05,839
you get from this limit of all possible

1467
00:47:09,589 --> 00:47:07,280
rules being applied

1468
00:47:10,710 --> 00:47:09,599
and that object is this rule multi-way

1469
00:47:12,870 --> 00:47:10,720
graph

1470
00:47:14,309 --> 00:47:12,880
and uh that's that's kind of the the

1471
00:47:15,589 --> 00:47:14,319
object that represents kind of the

1472
00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:15,599
universal possible

1473
00:47:20,630 --> 00:47:18,720
universes so to speak so i mean these

1474
00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:20,640
are this this gets fairly abstract and

1475
00:47:23,270 --> 00:47:22,319
it's it's you know you can understand

1476
00:47:26,630 --> 00:47:23,280
this

1477
00:47:28,230 --> 00:47:26,640
i mean the the uh um

1478
00:47:29,829 --> 00:47:28,240
there's a whole kind of world of higher

1479
00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:29,839
category theory and so on

1480
00:47:33,990 --> 00:47:32,400
which provides a framework for thinking

1481
00:47:34,870 --> 00:47:34,000
about these kinds of things that i think

1482
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:34,880
is useful

1483
00:47:38,309 --> 00:47:36,240
i think a bunch has been done it's one

1484
00:47:40,630 --> 00:47:38,319
of these places of sort of mathematical

1485
00:47:43,990 --> 00:47:40,640
physics mathematics kind of area

1486
00:47:50,549 --> 00:47:44,000
where um you know a lot has been built

1487
00:47:57,030 --> 00:47:54,630
the um um uh

1488
00:48:00,390 --> 00:47:57,040
a lot that has been built turns out to

1489
00:48:04,390 --> 00:48:03,670
you know i'm extremely impressed with

1490
00:48:07,829 --> 00:48:04,400
this model

1491
00:48:09,589 --> 00:48:07,839
both it's its simplicity and his power

1492
00:48:10,950 --> 00:48:09,599
i don't like to give my opinions usually

1493
00:48:12,630 --> 00:48:10,960
when i'm interviewing someone because

1494
00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:12,640
the audience doesn't particularly care

1495
00:48:18,470 --> 00:48:13,760
about what i think

1496
00:48:22,710 --> 00:48:18,480
and in some ways it detracts but i

1497
00:48:24,470 --> 00:48:22,720
i find i find plenty of it to be fun

1498
00:48:26,870 --> 00:48:24,480
in the sense that there are these

1499
00:48:28,549 --> 00:48:26,880
elemental elements these novelties

1500
00:48:29,990 --> 00:48:28,559
then you're wondering well okay so we

1501
00:48:31,109 --> 00:48:30,000
have these hyper graphs we have updating

1502
00:48:33,030 --> 00:48:31,119
rules and so on

1503
00:48:34,390 --> 00:48:33,040
and we have our laws of physics okay how

1504
00:48:36,549 --> 00:48:34,400
can this limit to that

1505
00:48:37,829 --> 00:48:36,559
and i imagine much of the working

1506
00:48:39,030 --> 00:48:37,839
sessions i've only watched a couple

1507
00:48:42,150 --> 00:48:39,040
imagine them

1508
00:48:44,870 --> 00:48:42,160
that they're quite enjoyable oh yeah

1509
00:48:46,230 --> 00:48:44,880
i do this because it's fun i mean it's

1510
00:48:48,309 --> 00:48:46,240
as simple as that but but

1511
00:48:50,470 --> 00:48:48,319
you know one thing i would like to say

1512
00:48:52,549 --> 00:48:50,480
about this you've got a model over here

1513
00:48:53,990 --> 00:48:52,559
you've got physics that we know over

1514
00:48:56,549 --> 00:48:54,000
here

1515
00:48:58,950 --> 00:48:56,559
one of the things that is an important

1516
00:49:01,190 --> 00:48:58,960
kind of intuitional thing to realize is

1517
00:49:02,390 --> 00:49:01,200
don't reverse engineer from the physics

1518
00:49:04,390 --> 00:49:02,400
we think we know

1519
00:49:06,230 --> 00:49:04,400
that is a tremendous tendency of people

1520
00:49:07,750 --> 00:49:06,240
to do that and it's a tremendous you

1521
00:49:10,069 --> 00:49:07,760
know we know all this stuff

1522
00:49:12,790 --> 00:49:10,079
so let's figure out that must mean that

1523
00:49:15,910 --> 00:49:12,800
underneath it is this this and this

1524
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:15,920
that's not how this was built this was

1525
00:49:20,549 --> 00:49:17,680
given this

1526
00:49:22,630 --> 00:49:20,559
you know very simple framework what

1527
00:49:24,309 --> 00:49:22,640
consequences does it have

1528
00:49:26,870 --> 00:49:24,319
now is it going to intersect with actual

1529
00:49:28,470 --> 00:49:26,880
physics or did we just miss completely

1530
00:49:30,230 --> 00:49:28,480
and is this a model of nothing in

1531
00:49:31,990 --> 00:49:30,240
particular the

1532
00:49:33,829 --> 00:49:32,000
you know it's very important that you

1533
00:49:36,870 --> 00:49:33,839
build up from the simple

1534
00:49:39,270 --> 00:49:36,880
model and then you see where you build

1535
00:49:41,030 --> 00:49:39,280
and it so happens that the amazing thing

1536
00:49:42,309 --> 00:49:41,040
that was really the big surprise of a

1537
00:49:44,630 --> 00:49:42,319
year and a bit ago

1538
00:49:46,069 --> 00:49:44,640
is you know the thing we built is

1539
00:49:47,829 --> 00:49:46,079
physics basically

1540
00:49:49,270 --> 00:49:47,839
and that's the thing that was that was

1541
00:49:50,069 --> 00:49:49,280
sort of the big surprise it might not

1542
00:49:53,190 --> 00:49:50,079
have been

1543
00:49:54,150 --> 00:49:53,200
you know as it's turning out okay i now

1544
00:49:57,990 --> 00:49:54,160
realize

1545
00:50:00,390 --> 00:49:58,000
years ago that it's sort of inevitable

1546
00:50:01,750 --> 00:50:00,400
that this has to be physics but that

1547
00:50:04,230 --> 00:50:01,760
wasn't obvious to me

1548
00:50:05,430 --> 00:50:04,240
as we were building it and it's it's the

1549
00:50:07,670 --> 00:50:05,440
thing that's been

1550
00:50:09,589 --> 00:50:07,680
really interesting to me is the

1551
00:50:10,710 --> 00:50:09,599
realization that not only is it a model

1552
00:50:12,230 --> 00:50:10,720
of physics

1553
00:50:14,710 --> 00:50:12,240
it's also a model of a whole bunch of

1554
00:50:17,030 --> 00:50:14,720
other things and

1555
00:50:18,630 --> 00:50:17,040
that you know i have the experience with

1556
00:50:19,589 --> 00:50:18,640
cellular automata that i worked on for

1557
00:50:21,589 --> 00:50:19,599
many years

1558
00:50:23,270 --> 00:50:21,599
so cellular automata are just these

1559
00:50:25,190 --> 00:50:23,280
extremely simple programs

1560
00:50:26,549 --> 00:50:25,200
where you just have a line of cells

1561
00:50:27,270 --> 00:50:26,559
let's say each one is either black or

1562
00:50:29,589 --> 00:50:27,280
white

1563
00:50:30,950 --> 00:50:29,599
and then a series of steps you update

1564
00:50:32,470 --> 00:50:30,960
the color of a cell according to the

1565
00:50:33,910 --> 00:50:32,480
color of the cell above it and to its

1566
00:50:36,309 --> 00:50:33,920
left and right let's say

1567
00:50:37,750 --> 00:50:36,319
you might have thought that a simple

1568
00:50:39,190 --> 00:50:37,760
rule like that would always lead to

1569
00:50:40,710 --> 00:50:39,200
simple patterns of behavior

1570
00:50:43,349 --> 00:50:40,720
but the big discovery that i made in the

1571
00:50:44,950 --> 00:50:43,359
early 1980s is that that's not true

1572
00:50:47,349 --> 00:50:44,960
that you can get very complicated

1573
00:50:48,630 --> 00:50:47,359
behavior even from very simple rules

1574
00:50:50,790 --> 00:50:48,640
and the thing that happened with

1575
00:50:51,910 --> 00:50:50,800
cellular automata is they're very

1576
00:50:53,990 --> 00:50:51,920
minimal models

1577
00:50:56,790 --> 00:50:54,000
they're just you have a line of cells or

1578
00:50:58,309 --> 00:50:56,800
you have a a array of cells or whatever

1579
00:50:59,829 --> 00:50:58,319
and you're applying these local rules

1580
00:51:00,950 --> 00:50:59,839
and you're updating the thing very

1581
00:51:03,270 --> 00:51:00,960
minimal model

1582
00:51:04,309 --> 00:51:03,280
so then you roll the clock forward a few

1583
00:51:06,549 --> 00:51:04,319
decades

1584
00:51:08,390 --> 00:51:06,559
and you realize oh gosh there are models

1585
00:51:09,510 --> 00:51:08,400
that use cellular automata for zillions

1586
00:51:12,150 --> 00:51:09,520
of different things

1587
00:51:12,549 --> 00:51:12,160
from you know road traffic flow to you

1588
00:51:16,069 --> 00:51:12,559
know

1589
00:51:18,630 --> 00:51:16,079
the way leaves work to the way that um

1590
00:51:19,990 --> 00:51:18,640
i don't know catalysts and and camera

1591
00:51:22,150 --> 00:51:20,000
and surfaces work

1592
00:51:24,150 --> 00:51:22,160
to the way all kinds of different things

1593
00:51:25,190 --> 00:51:24,160
all kinds of to mollusk pigmentation

1594
00:51:27,430 --> 00:51:25,200
patterns whatever

1595
00:51:29,750 --> 00:51:27,440
all kinds of different things and so in

1596
00:51:31,510 --> 00:51:29,760
a sense you have this very minimal model

1597
00:51:33,030 --> 00:51:31,520
which in that particular case assumes a

1598
00:51:34,710 --> 00:51:33,040
certain structure of space and time but

1599
00:51:36,790 --> 00:51:34,720
you have a very minimal model

1600
00:51:38,309 --> 00:51:36,800
and that model ends up being a model of

1601
00:51:39,910 --> 00:51:38,319
lots of kinds of things so in a sense

1602
00:51:42,630 --> 00:51:39,920
it's unsurprising

1603
00:51:43,430 --> 00:51:42,640
that this much more flexible model that

1604
00:51:46,549 --> 00:51:43,440
we have

1605
00:51:48,710 --> 00:51:46,559
that we built for physics ends up

1606
00:51:50,069 --> 00:51:48,720
looking like it's going to be a really i

1607
00:51:51,910 --> 00:51:50,079
mean you know very

1608
00:51:53,910 --> 00:51:51,920
powerful model for the foundations of a

1609
00:51:55,589 --> 00:51:53,920
whole bunch of other fields as well

1610
00:51:57,270 --> 00:51:55,599
and the thing that's really interesting

1611
00:51:58,630 --> 00:51:57,280
about that is you know so i've been

1612
00:51:59,670 --> 00:51:58,640
doing a whole bunch of work on meta

1613
00:52:00,950 --> 00:51:59,680
mathematics

1614
00:52:03,349 --> 00:52:00,960
the kind of overall structure of

1615
00:52:05,829 --> 00:52:03,359
mathematics where where the nodes

1616
00:52:07,430 --> 00:52:05,839
are not atoms of space but the nodes are

1617
00:52:09,109 --> 00:52:07,440
mathematical theorems

1618
00:52:11,430 --> 00:52:09,119
and the relationships between them are

1619
00:52:12,630 --> 00:52:11,440
proofs of one theorem from another

1620
00:52:13,910 --> 00:52:12,640
well you might say what does that what

1621
00:52:15,750 --> 00:52:13,920
on earth does that have to do with the

1622
00:52:18,470 --> 00:52:15,760
structure of the physical universe

1623
00:52:20,230 --> 00:52:18,480
but it turns out that it looks like the

1624
00:52:22,150 --> 00:52:20,240
the formalistic structure of that

1625
00:52:23,510 --> 00:52:22,160
is the same as the structure of the

1626
00:52:26,309 --> 00:52:23,520
physical universe

1627
00:52:26,870 --> 00:52:26,319
and that's um that's something that's uh

1628
00:52:32,150 --> 00:52:26,880
both

1629
00:52:34,069 --> 00:52:32,160
the most important thing for me is

1630
00:52:35,430 --> 00:52:34,079
it means that you get to have this kind

1631
00:52:37,109 --> 00:52:35,440
of cross-connection

1632
00:52:38,470 --> 00:52:37,119
of the ideas from metamathematics and

1633
00:52:39,910 --> 00:52:38,480
the ideas from physics

1634
00:52:42,309 --> 00:52:39,920
so in physics we've learned a lot of

1635
00:52:44,309 --> 00:52:42,319
stuff about how general relativity works

1636
00:52:46,710 --> 00:52:44,319
how all these kinds of things work so

1637
00:52:48,790 --> 00:52:46,720
now we get to import those ideas

1638
00:52:50,950 --> 00:52:48,800
into meta mathematics and we get to

1639
00:52:53,190 --> 00:52:50,960
import the ideas of mathematical logic

1640
00:52:55,589 --> 00:52:53,200
into physics and so by realizing that

1641
00:52:57,430 --> 00:52:55,599
the underlying formalism is the same

1642
00:52:59,910 --> 00:52:57,440
we get to make that kind of uh

1643
00:53:00,790 --> 00:52:59,920
conversion and this formalism also seems

1644
00:53:02,790 --> 00:53:00,800
to be

1645
00:53:04,710 --> 00:53:02,800
uh really the right formalism to think

1646
00:53:06,390 --> 00:53:04,720
about distributed computing

1647
00:53:08,549 --> 00:53:06,400
it may very well be the right formalism

1648
00:53:11,589 --> 00:53:08,559
to think about systems biology

1649
00:53:14,630 --> 00:53:11,599
and it uh the the one that i've been

1650
00:53:16,069 --> 00:53:14,640
poking at a lot recently is economics

1651
00:53:17,349 --> 00:53:16,079
and it may well be the right formalism

1652
00:53:18,390 --> 00:53:17,359
to think about that in each of these

1653
00:53:21,270 --> 00:53:18,400
applications

1654
00:53:22,870 --> 00:53:21,280
the details of of what the corresponding

1655
00:53:23,750 --> 00:53:22,880
what the thing that's like the atoms of

1656
00:53:25,670 --> 00:53:23,760
spaces

1657
00:53:26,950 --> 00:53:25,680
are different and the details of how it

1658
00:53:28,390 --> 00:53:26,960
works is different

1659
00:53:30,230 --> 00:53:28,400
but the point is that the overall

1660
00:53:32,309 --> 00:53:30,240
structure the overall formalism

1661
00:53:34,390 --> 00:53:32,319
seems to carry over and that allows you

1662
00:53:35,750 --> 00:53:34,400
to use sort of big ideas from one field

1663
00:53:37,829 --> 00:53:35,760
in another field

1664
00:53:40,069 --> 00:53:37,839
so that's that's been uh you know it's

1665
00:53:41,990 --> 00:53:40,079
it's a it's a more global theory

1666
00:53:44,710 --> 00:53:42,000
than i ever imagined it could possibly

1667
00:53:47,430 --> 00:53:44,720
be and and i've realized that um

1668
00:53:48,069 --> 00:53:47,440
the you know the fundamental uh sort of

1669
00:53:49,589 --> 00:53:48,079
struggle

1670
00:53:51,510 --> 00:53:49,599
in a sense for these theories is the

1671
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:51,520
following you have a simple rule

1672
00:53:56,150 --> 00:53:53,760
underneath but that simple rule just

1673
00:53:58,309 --> 00:53:56,160
like in my cellular automata

1674
00:53:59,990 --> 00:53:58,319
the simple rule leads to very

1675
00:54:01,109 --> 00:54:00,000
complicated behavior but it leads to

1676
00:54:03,190 --> 00:54:01,119
behavior that is

1677
00:54:04,630 --> 00:54:03,200
computationally irreducible in the sense

1678
00:54:06,630 --> 00:54:04,640
it's complicated enough

1679
00:54:08,150 --> 00:54:06,640
you can't tell what's going to happen

1680
00:54:09,910 --> 00:54:08,160
without basically just running the rule

1681
00:54:11,910 --> 00:54:09,920
and seeing what happens

1682
00:54:12,950 --> 00:54:11,920
so then the thing which i should have

1683
00:54:16,630 --> 00:54:12,960
been able to figure out

1684
00:54:18,230 --> 00:54:16,640
but didn't is in assume that there's a

1685
00:54:20,150 --> 00:54:18,240
simple underlying rule for the universe

1686
00:54:22,150 --> 00:54:20,160
there's computational irreducibility

1687
00:54:23,589 --> 00:54:22,160
that produces immense complexity in the

1688
00:54:25,670 --> 00:54:23,599
behavior of the universe

1689
00:54:26,950 --> 00:54:25,680
how come we can figure out anything

1690
00:54:28,710 --> 00:54:26,960
about the universe

1691
00:54:30,069 --> 00:54:28,720
how come we can even say the universe

1692
00:54:31,589 --> 00:54:30,079
follows definite laws

1693
00:54:34,150 --> 00:54:31,599
how come we can predict what's going to

1694
00:54:36,470 --> 00:54:34,160
happen at all why isn't it just a whole

1695
00:54:37,589 --> 00:54:36,480
mass of irreducibility and what you

1696
00:54:39,510 --> 00:54:37,599
realize is

1697
00:54:41,589 --> 00:54:39,520
within any computational irreducible

1698
00:54:42,549 --> 00:54:41,599
system there are always these pockets of

1699
00:54:44,309 --> 00:54:42,559
reduceability

1700
00:54:46,390 --> 00:54:44,319
there are always pockets yeah there are

1701
00:54:48,150 --> 00:54:46,400
always pockets of reducibility it's it's

1702
00:54:49,670 --> 00:54:48,160
so there is no way to construct the

1703
00:54:51,270 --> 00:54:49,680
system that's computationally

1704
00:54:52,150 --> 00:54:51,280
irreducible that has no pockets of

1705
00:54:54,630 --> 00:54:52,160
reducibility

1706
00:54:55,589 --> 00:54:54,640
i believe that to be correct okay but i

1707
00:54:58,789 --> 00:54:55,599
mean there

1708
00:55:00,549 --> 00:54:58,799
no i mean that's a to

1709
00:55:02,950 --> 00:55:00,559
fully formalize that notion would be

1710
00:55:04,950 --> 00:55:02,960
quite interesting i suspect that you can

1711
00:55:07,349 --> 00:55:04,960
get some formalization through speed up

1712
00:55:11,030 --> 00:55:07,359
theorems in in computation theory

1713
00:55:12,309 --> 00:55:11,040
but um i think it's it is intuitively

1714
00:55:15,750 --> 00:55:12,319
fairly obvious

1715
00:55:17,430 --> 00:55:15,760
but if as you try and nail it down um uh

1716
00:55:18,789 --> 00:55:17,440
there will be you know i think the speed

1717
00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:18,799
up theorems are the way to think about

1718
00:55:22,470 --> 00:55:19,440
that

1719
00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:22,480
in a somewhat more formal way but um

1720
00:55:27,430 --> 00:55:25,680
so in any case the the um uh the thing

1721
00:55:28,710 --> 00:55:27,440
that one realizes is

1722
00:55:31,349 --> 00:55:28,720
so there are these pockets of

1723
00:55:33,510 --> 00:55:31,359
reducibility that exists

1724
00:55:35,750 --> 00:55:33,520
and the thing that is sort of the the

1725
00:55:37,510 --> 00:55:35,760
big surprise is

1726
00:55:39,430 --> 00:55:37,520
those pockets correspond to the big

1727
00:55:41,910 --> 00:55:39,440
theories of physics

1728
00:55:43,430 --> 00:55:41,920
each one has probed some pocket now the

1729
00:55:46,390 --> 00:55:43,440
next question is

1730
00:55:47,510 --> 00:55:46,400
are there other pockets that have never

1731
00:55:49,030 --> 00:55:47,520
been discovered that are

1732
00:55:50,710 --> 00:55:49,040
theories of physics that we just don't

1733
00:55:52,549 --> 00:55:50,720
know that are complete

1734
00:55:53,910 --> 00:55:52,559
global theories like general somebody

1735
00:55:55,990 --> 00:55:53,920
like quantum mechanics

1736
00:55:57,829 --> 00:55:56,000
but we don't know them and what i

1737
00:56:01,510 --> 00:55:57,839
realized recently is

1738
00:56:05,190 --> 00:56:01,520
that the the kind of the the

1739
00:56:06,069 --> 00:56:05,200
you know the reason that we know those

1740
00:56:07,750 --> 00:56:06,079
theories

1741
00:56:09,589 --> 00:56:07,760
is because there are certain attributes

1742
00:56:10,630 --> 00:56:09,599
that we as observers of the universe

1743
00:56:13,190 --> 00:56:10,640
have

1744
00:56:14,069 --> 00:56:13,200
and those attributes lead us to those

1745
00:56:15,990 --> 00:56:14,079
theories so

1746
00:56:17,990 --> 00:56:16,000
the attributes are things like that we

1747
00:56:20,870 --> 00:56:18,000
have a computationally bounded

1748
00:56:21,990 --> 00:56:20,880
way of understanding the universe now

1749
00:56:24,470 --> 00:56:22,000
that's one of them

1750
00:56:27,190 --> 00:56:24,480
another one is that we have a definite

1751
00:56:31,030 --> 00:56:27,200
thread of experience in time

1752
00:56:32,789 --> 00:56:31,040
we we are we are not operating with many

1753
00:56:33,750 --> 00:56:32,799
many many threads of experience we have

1754
00:56:35,589 --> 00:56:33,760
a definite

1755
00:56:37,670 --> 00:56:35,599
sort of thread of consciousness that we

1756
00:56:40,309 --> 00:56:37,680
follow we're not um

1757
00:56:42,309 --> 00:56:40,319
uh and that and in fact the thing i

1758
00:56:45,349 --> 00:56:42,319
realized just in the last week actually

1759
00:56:47,109 --> 00:56:45,359
um is uh uh

1760
00:56:49,349 --> 00:56:47,119
one of the things that is non-trivial in

1761
00:56:52,069 --> 00:56:49,359
our models is the notion of

1762
00:56:53,910 --> 00:56:52,079
uh maintaining your identity so to speak

1763
00:56:56,710 --> 00:56:53,920
so in this hypergraph

1764
00:56:57,990 --> 00:56:56,720
every every atom of space is being

1765
00:57:00,789 --> 00:56:58,000
destroyed a new one is being

1766
00:57:02,470 --> 00:57:00,799
created all the time so the question is

1767
00:57:05,349 --> 00:57:02,480
how come you and me

1768
00:57:05,990 --> 00:57:05,359
seem like we sort of exist through time

1769
00:57:08,630 --> 00:57:06,000
turns out

1770
00:57:09,910 --> 00:57:08,640
our atoms of space are being destroyed

1771
00:57:12,470 --> 00:57:09,920
and recreated

1772
00:57:13,910 --> 00:57:12,480
you know whatever it is 10 to 100 times

1773
00:57:16,390 --> 00:57:13,920
per second

1774
00:57:18,470 --> 00:57:16,400
so in other words how come we are a

1775
00:57:20,710 --> 00:57:18,480
thing we maintain our identity

1776
00:57:21,670 --> 00:57:20,720
that is a non-trivial fact about us as

1777
00:57:25,190 --> 00:57:21,680
observers

1778
00:57:27,349 --> 00:57:25,200
that we we we consider ourselves to

1779
00:57:29,589 --> 00:57:27,359
maintain our identity

1780
00:57:31,829 --> 00:57:29,599
and through time the thing i realized

1781
00:57:34,470 --> 00:57:31,839
just recently is there's a similar

1782
00:57:36,630 --> 00:57:34,480
way in which we do that in space it is

1783
00:57:38,309 --> 00:57:36,640
not obvious that there would be a pure

1784
00:57:41,109 --> 00:57:38,319
notion of motion

1785
00:57:42,950 --> 00:57:41,119
that is that you could move you know as

1786
00:57:45,270 --> 00:57:42,960
i move from here to there

1787
00:57:46,549 --> 00:57:45,280
the atoms of space that are in me are

1788
00:57:50,069 --> 00:57:46,559
different

1789
00:57:52,230 --> 00:57:50,079
and right yet me i have an identity

1790
00:57:53,510 --> 00:57:52,240
that i think i can carry around i can

1791
00:57:55,990 --> 00:57:53,520
carry it through time

1792
00:57:57,270 --> 00:57:56,000
i carry it around in space the

1793
00:58:00,630 --> 00:57:57,280
assumption

1794
00:58:02,549 --> 00:58:00,640
that i maintain that identity is

1795
00:58:05,109 --> 00:58:02,559
what ends up being sort of a tail that

1796
00:58:06,549 --> 00:58:05,119
wags eventually that gives us the laws

1797
00:58:09,109 --> 00:58:06,559
of physics that we know

1798
00:58:11,190 --> 00:58:09,119
in other words if we did not have that

1799
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:11,200
assumption about ourselves

1800
00:58:15,670 --> 00:58:13,680
we would have different laws of physics

1801
00:58:18,710 --> 00:58:15,680
and if we didn't have

1802
00:58:19,990 --> 00:58:18,720
for example the the notion that

1803
00:58:22,069 --> 00:58:20,000
oh i don't know this quantum

1804
00:58:23,910 --> 00:58:22,079
measurements occur the notion that we

1805
00:58:26,870 --> 00:58:23,920
we collapse all these different parts of

1806
00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:26,880
history into a single definite outcome

1807
00:58:30,069 --> 00:58:29,760
that is directly related to the fact

1808
00:58:33,829 --> 00:58:30,079
that

1809
00:58:36,069 --> 00:58:33,839
identity through time

1810
00:58:37,510 --> 00:58:36,079
that in other words if if we just said

1811
00:58:38,950 --> 00:58:37,520
oh i don't care about that

1812
00:58:40,870 --> 00:58:38,960
i'm not going to maintain a definite

1813
00:58:42,069 --> 00:58:40,880
identity through time i'm perfectly

1814
00:58:45,510 --> 00:58:42,079
happy to have myself

1815
00:58:48,630 --> 00:58:45,520
branched a zillion times

1816
00:58:51,670 --> 00:58:48,640
then you no longer get this idea

1817
00:58:53,030 --> 00:58:51,680
that we imagine about quantum mechanics

1818
00:58:54,789 --> 00:58:53,040
that there are somewhat there are

1819
00:58:58,309 --> 00:58:54,799
definite outcomes that occur

1820
00:59:00,710 --> 00:58:58,319
so in other words it's it's our our

1821
00:59:02,710 --> 00:59:00,720
way of constructing ourselves and the

1822
00:59:04,309 --> 00:59:02,720
way we think about ourselves

1823
00:59:06,630 --> 00:59:04,319
and the way we kind of perceive the

1824
00:59:08,069 --> 00:59:06,640
universe that drives the structure of

1825
00:59:10,710 --> 00:59:08,079
the laws of physics that

1826
00:59:11,990 --> 00:59:10,720
that we know so one of the things that

1827
00:59:13,510 --> 00:59:12,000
that obviously leads to

1828
00:59:15,750 --> 00:59:13,520
is well maybe there are completely other

1829
00:59:17,430 --> 00:59:15,760
laws of physics and a completely other

1830
00:59:19,670 --> 00:59:17,440
sort of plane of existence

1831
00:59:20,549 --> 00:59:19,680
that we are utterly unfamiliar with and

1832
00:59:23,589 --> 00:59:20,559
i think that's

1833
00:59:24,390 --> 00:59:23,599
almost undeniably the case that that

1834
00:59:25,670 --> 00:59:24,400
exists

1835
00:59:27,430 --> 00:59:25,680
and that's probably one of the reasons

1836
00:59:28,870 --> 00:59:27,440
why you know when you say what about

1837
00:59:31,030 --> 00:59:28,880
other intelligence in the universe why

1838
00:59:34,549 --> 00:59:31,040
haven't we met all the aliens and so on

1839
00:59:36,150 --> 00:59:34,559
well because actually their

1840
00:59:37,910 --> 00:59:36,160
sort of perception of the universe may

1841
00:59:40,549 --> 00:59:37,920
be so different from ours

1842
00:59:42,069 --> 00:59:40,559
it's kind of incoherently different and

1843
00:59:44,829 --> 00:59:42,079
it's not something where

1844
00:59:46,069 --> 00:59:44,839
our our narrative about how the universe

1845
00:59:47,910 --> 00:59:46,079
works

1846
00:59:49,670 --> 00:59:47,920
kind of carries over to those those

1847
00:59:52,549 --> 00:59:49,680
those kinds of uh

1848
00:59:53,589 --> 00:59:52,559
places so it's it's a it's in a sense

1849
00:59:55,510 --> 00:59:53,599
it's a rather humbling

1850
00:59:57,109 --> 00:59:55,520
experience because you're realizing that

1851
00:59:58,309 --> 00:59:57,119
that you know all the stuff we built in

1852
01:00:00,470 --> 00:59:58,319
physics and so on

1853
01:00:01,589 --> 01:00:00,480
is all we built it because that's the

1854
01:00:03,910 --> 01:00:01,599
way that we

1855
01:00:05,910 --> 01:00:03,920
parse the universe so to speak and were

1856
01:00:07,190 --> 01:00:05,920
we to parse the universe differently

1857
01:00:09,270 --> 01:00:07,200
we would have completely different views

1858
01:00:10,870 --> 01:00:09,280
of physics um

1859
01:00:13,190 --> 01:00:10,880
and i mean i think the thing that has

1860
01:00:15,349 --> 01:00:13,200
been well this is this week's issue

1861
01:00:16,630 --> 01:00:15,359
is thinking about that in terms of

1862
01:00:18,549 --> 01:00:16,640
mathematics

1863
01:00:19,750 --> 01:00:18,559
insofar as we believe that there is this

1864
01:00:21,430 --> 01:00:19,760
kind of object

1865
01:00:23,109 --> 01:00:21,440
that represents the mathematics of all

1866
01:00:26,069 --> 01:00:23,119
possible mathematicses

1867
01:00:27,030 --> 01:00:26,079
and that we are merely as mathematicians

1868
01:00:29,510 --> 01:00:27,040
so to speak

1869
01:00:31,589 --> 01:00:29,520
we are merely observers observing some

1870
01:00:34,309 --> 01:00:31,599
slice of that object

1871
01:00:35,750 --> 01:00:34,319
what is the what is the analog of the

1872
01:00:37,030 --> 01:00:35,760
constraints of consciousness and the

1873
01:00:39,510 --> 01:00:37,040
physical world

1874
01:00:41,270 --> 01:00:39,520
on the on sort of what is a mathematical

1875
01:00:43,109 --> 01:00:41,280
consciousness so to speak that's my

1876
01:00:44,630 --> 01:00:43,119
that's my that's my personal homework

1877
01:00:46,230 --> 01:00:44,640
exercise for the week

1878
01:00:47,750 --> 01:00:46,240
um that's interesting so this

1879
01:00:49,270 --> 01:00:47,760
consciousness that we have isn't

1880
01:00:51,270 --> 01:00:49,280
necessarily that

1881
01:00:52,710 --> 01:00:51,280
we can't communicate with any other

1882
01:00:54,390 --> 01:00:52,720
being because

1883
01:00:56,630 --> 01:00:54,400
the laws of physics that they perceive

1884
01:00:58,549 --> 01:00:56,640
is incoherent do they perceive coherent

1885
01:01:01,270 --> 01:00:58,559
laws

1886
01:01:03,910 --> 01:01:01,280
yes i think so i think so i mean but the

1887
01:01:07,030 --> 01:01:03,920
way you think about it is this

1888
01:01:08,390 --> 01:01:07,040
in this kind of rulial space different

1889
01:01:10,390 --> 01:01:08,400
points in rule space

1890
01:01:12,710 --> 01:01:10,400
correspond to different description

1891
01:01:15,829 --> 01:01:12,720
languages for the universe

1892
01:01:17,270 --> 01:01:15,839
so just like in physical space

1893
01:01:18,789 --> 01:01:17,280
we have a view of the universe that's

1894
01:01:19,750 --> 01:01:18,799
based on the fact that we're sitting on

1895
01:01:21,430 --> 01:01:19,760
the earth

1896
01:01:22,950 --> 01:01:21,440
you know which is in some corner of some

1897
01:01:25,349 --> 01:01:22,960
galaxy that's in some corner of the

1898
01:01:26,630 --> 01:01:25,359
universe we have a point of view on the

1899
01:01:28,230 --> 01:01:26,640
universe based on where we are in

1900
01:01:30,870 --> 01:01:28,240
physical space

1901
01:01:32,470 --> 01:01:30,880
so similarly in rule space we have a

1902
01:01:35,109 --> 01:01:32,480
point of view on the universe that's

1903
01:01:37,109 --> 01:01:35,119
based on where we are in rural space

1904
01:01:38,150 --> 01:01:37,119
now the question that we can ask is just

1905
01:01:39,270 --> 01:01:38,160
like we can ask for the

1906
01:01:41,030 --> 01:01:39,280
extraterrestrials

1907
01:01:42,309 --> 01:01:41,040
do they live in alpha centauri or do

1908
01:01:44,390 --> 01:01:42,319
they live in you know

1909
01:01:46,309 --> 01:01:44,400
25 light years away or whatever where do

1910
01:01:46,870 --> 01:01:46,319
they live in physical space relative to

1911
01:01:48,309 --> 01:01:46,880
us

1912
01:01:51,030 --> 01:01:48,319
we can also ask the question whether

1913
01:01:53,910 --> 01:01:51,040
they live in rural space relative to us

1914
01:01:56,150 --> 01:01:53,920
we've not mapped out rule space nearly

1915
01:01:57,829 --> 01:01:56,160
as well as we mapped out physical space

1916
01:02:00,390 --> 01:01:57,839
so we don't really have a good sense of

1917
01:02:02,230 --> 01:02:00,400
those um those distances and those

1918
01:02:03,510 --> 01:02:02,240
what that corresponds to but that's kind

1919
01:02:04,710 --> 01:02:03,520
of the way to think about it and i i

1920
01:02:07,190 --> 01:02:04,720
would love to know

1921
01:02:08,230 --> 01:02:07,200
you know how close is the nearest

1922
01:02:10,710 --> 01:02:08,240
civilization

1923
01:02:12,470 --> 01:02:10,720
in rural space people say you know let's

1924
01:02:14,789 --> 01:02:12,480
go check out the stars

1925
01:02:16,230 --> 01:02:14,799
you know the nearby stars and you know

1926
01:02:17,270 --> 01:02:16,240
look at the ones with exoplanets and

1927
01:02:19,029 --> 01:02:17,280
things like that

1928
01:02:20,390 --> 01:02:19,039
and uh you know but there's a different

1929
01:02:23,270 --> 01:02:20,400
question which is

1930
01:02:24,150 --> 01:02:23,280
kind of in in rural space what's the

1931
01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:24,160
closest

1932
01:02:30,230 --> 01:02:27,920
recognize so to speak

1933
01:02:31,190 --> 01:02:30,240
and i don't know the answer to this and

1934
01:02:33,510 --> 01:02:31,200
that's some

1935
01:02:35,589 --> 01:02:33,520
uh but i think to the observer

1936
01:02:38,470 --> 01:02:35,599
themselves

1937
01:02:40,150 --> 01:02:38,480
i think it is almost tautological that

1938
01:02:43,029 --> 01:02:40,160
things will seem coherent

1939
01:02:43,990 --> 01:02:43,039
so for example to do an exercise let's

1940
01:02:47,910 --> 01:02:44,000
consider two

1941
01:02:49,510 --> 01:02:47,920
intelligences that aren't us okay so one

1942
01:02:51,349 --> 01:02:49,520
that i'm always fond of mentioning is

1943
01:02:52,069 --> 01:02:51,359
you know the weather has a mind of its

1944
01:02:53,349 --> 01:02:52,079
own

1945
01:02:55,270 --> 01:02:53,359
it has you know it's doing these

1946
01:02:58,069 --> 01:02:55,280
sophisticated computations

1947
01:02:59,430 --> 01:02:58,079
but it doesn't have this kind of single

1948
01:03:00,390 --> 01:02:59,440
thread of consciousness type thing i

1949
01:03:02,549 --> 01:03:00,400
mean we have

1950
01:03:04,230 --> 01:03:02,559
in our brains we have actual you know

1951
01:03:06,150 --> 01:03:04,240
structures in our brains

1952
01:03:07,510 --> 01:03:06,160
that lead us to have this sort of single

1953
01:03:09,270 --> 01:03:07,520
thread of attention

1954
01:03:10,549 --> 01:03:09,280
that kind of sequentializes all of our

1955
01:03:13,270 --> 01:03:10,559
experiences

1956
01:03:14,470 --> 01:03:13,280
and when you know when people sort of

1957
01:03:16,870 --> 01:03:14,480
lose that

1958
01:03:17,910 --> 01:03:16,880
they become unconscious so to speak and

1959
01:03:19,430 --> 01:03:17,920
and you know we've got

1960
01:03:21,510 --> 01:03:19,440
you can still have plenty of neurons

1961
01:03:22,549 --> 01:03:21,520
firing in your brain but not have

1962
01:03:24,549 --> 01:03:22,559
consciousness

1963
01:03:27,510 --> 01:03:24,559
you don't have this integration of of

1964
01:03:29,190 --> 01:03:27,520
kind of the single thread of experience

1965
01:03:30,950 --> 01:03:29,200
and the weather is sort of a bit like

1966
01:03:32,069 --> 01:03:30,960
that it's got lots of not neurons but

1967
01:03:34,230 --> 01:03:32,079
it's got lots of

1968
01:03:35,270 --> 01:03:34,240
fluid processes sort of firing all over

1969
01:03:37,750 --> 01:03:35,280
the planet

1970
01:03:40,069 --> 01:03:37,760
and but it doesn't seem to have any kind

1971
01:03:40,950 --> 01:03:40,079
of sort of single thread of experience

1972
01:03:42,950 --> 01:03:40,960
that's going on

1973
01:03:44,950 --> 01:03:42,960
so that's sort of an example of and if

1974
01:03:46,549 --> 01:03:44,960
we say can we communicate with the

1975
01:03:48,950 --> 01:03:46,559
weather

1976
01:03:50,390 --> 01:03:48,960
well not any way that we know i mean we

1977
01:03:50,630 --> 01:03:50,400
we we have something where it's sort of

1978
01:03:52,870 --> 01:03:50,640
an

1979
01:03:53,670 --> 01:03:52,880
incoherently different experience of the

1980
01:03:55,829 --> 01:03:53,680
universe

1981
01:03:56,789 --> 01:03:55,839
than the one we have now if we put

1982
01:03:59,829 --> 01:03:56,799
ourselves

1983
01:04:02,309 --> 01:03:59,839
in the mindset of the weather does it

1984
01:04:06,230 --> 01:04:02,319
have a coherent view of what's going on

1985
01:04:08,870 --> 01:04:06,240
to itself probably tautologically yes

1986
01:04:10,549 --> 01:04:08,880
um maybe a better example that's maybe a

1987
01:04:12,309 --> 01:04:10,559
little bit closer at hand which i have

1988
01:04:15,829 --> 01:04:12,319
not thought through completely

1989
01:04:17,910 --> 01:04:15,839
is sort of distributed ais so

1990
01:04:19,510 --> 01:04:17,920
in other words you've got an ai but it

1991
01:04:20,710 --> 01:04:19,520
isn't just one ai it's a whole network

1992
01:04:23,670 --> 01:04:20,720
of computers

1993
01:04:23,910 --> 01:04:23,680
and it's like what is its experience of

1994
01:04:28,390 --> 01:04:23,920
the

1995
01:04:29,349 --> 01:04:28,400
imagine is going on because

1996
01:04:30,630 --> 01:04:29,359
for example you've got all these

1997
01:04:31,750 --> 01:04:30,640
different ais they've got all these

1998
01:04:34,309 --> 01:04:31,760
sensors

1999
01:04:35,510 --> 01:04:34,319
and they're seeing things that happen

2000
01:04:37,430 --> 01:04:35,520
those sensors

2001
01:04:38,950 --> 01:04:37,440
might be separated by distances that are

2002
01:04:41,990 --> 01:04:38,960
quite large compared to

2003
01:04:44,069 --> 01:04:42,000
you know that takes significant time to

2004
01:04:46,069 --> 01:04:44,079
for signals to travel between them you

2005
01:04:46,710 --> 01:04:46,079
know what is its view of the universe so

2006
01:04:48,069 --> 01:04:46,720
to speak

2007
01:04:49,990 --> 01:04:48,079
it's very different from ours because

2008
01:04:51,510 --> 01:04:50,000
we're we're localized at a particular

2009
01:04:54,309 --> 01:04:51,520
point in space

2010
01:04:55,990 --> 01:04:54,319
um etc so it's kind of a good exercise

2011
01:04:57,829 --> 01:04:56,000
to try and think through in fact i was

2012
01:04:59,190 --> 01:04:57,839
i was sort of trying to inventory and i

2013
01:05:02,390 --> 01:04:59,200
i think it's a great

2014
01:05:03,750 --> 01:05:02,400
setup for a a piece of science fiction

2015
01:05:06,150 --> 01:05:03,760
more difficult than i can

2016
01:05:07,750 --> 01:05:06,160
than i can certainly muster which is

2017
01:05:08,870 --> 01:05:07,760
imagine all these different scenarios

2018
01:05:12,309 --> 01:05:08,880
imagine you are

2019
01:05:14,150 --> 01:05:12,319
an organism that spans a galaxy

2020
01:05:15,829 --> 01:05:14,160
how does the universe look to you

2021
01:05:18,870 --> 01:05:15,839
imagine you're an organism

2022
01:05:20,309 --> 01:05:18,880
that routinely ends up on different

2023
01:05:21,029 --> 01:05:20,319
sides of the event horizons of black

2024
01:05:22,950 --> 01:05:21,039
holes

2025
01:05:25,029 --> 01:05:22,960
what does the universe look to you

2026
01:05:28,150 --> 01:05:25,039
imagine you're an organism

2027
01:05:29,829 --> 01:05:28,160
so to speak that lives on photons that's

2028
01:05:32,950 --> 01:05:29,839
associated with photons

2029
01:05:33,589 --> 01:05:32,960
you know where basically no time has

2030
01:05:35,670 --> 01:05:33,599
passed

2031
01:05:36,710 --> 01:05:35,680
from the last scattering surface a few

2032
01:05:38,549 --> 01:05:36,720
hundred thousand years after the

2033
01:05:41,109 --> 01:05:38,559
beginning of the universe and now

2034
01:05:42,630 --> 01:05:41,119
if you're a photon so it's kind of like

2035
01:05:44,150 --> 01:05:42,640
what are these different views of the

2036
01:05:46,710 --> 01:05:44,160
universe that you have

2037
01:05:47,510 --> 01:05:46,720
if you are uh implemented in different

2038
01:05:50,710 --> 01:05:47,520
ways

2039
01:05:52,150 --> 01:05:50,720
and you know there are probably uh sort

2040
01:05:53,109 --> 01:05:52,160
of implementation levels for the

2041
01:05:55,190 --> 01:05:53,119
universe

2042
01:05:56,470 --> 01:05:55,200
that involve kind of just recognizing

2043
01:05:58,309 --> 01:05:56,480
different features

2044
01:06:00,069 --> 01:05:58,319
of this whole network of atoms of space

2045
01:06:01,829 --> 01:06:00,079
and so on completely different from the

2046
01:06:04,390 --> 01:06:01,839
ones that we recognize

2047
01:06:05,029 --> 01:06:04,400
in um you know in our analysis of of the

2048
01:06:09,990 --> 01:06:05,039
structure of

2049
01:06:12,950 --> 01:06:10,000
of the universe so i mean that that's um

2050
01:06:13,670 --> 01:06:12,960
uh anyway that that's that's kind of my

2051
01:06:19,910 --> 01:06:13,680
um

2052
01:06:21,910 --> 01:06:19,920
it seems like there are two issues here

2053
01:06:22,870 --> 01:06:21,920
about extraterrestrial life or

2054
01:06:24,789 --> 01:06:22,880
intelligent life

2055
01:06:26,309 --> 01:06:24,799
one is whether or not we can communicate

2056
01:06:27,270 --> 01:06:26,319
with them and the other is that we can

2057
01:06:29,510 --> 01:06:27,280
perceive them

2058
01:06:31,029 --> 01:06:29,520
so when we're saying that we don't see

2059
01:06:32,309 --> 01:06:31,039
extraterrestrial life the argument

2060
01:06:34,150 --> 01:06:32,319
you've given seems to be that we can't

2061
01:06:35,670 --> 01:06:34,160
communicate or be extremely unlikely

2062
01:06:38,470 --> 01:06:35,680
that we'd be able to communicate

2063
01:06:39,829 --> 01:06:38,480
with it if we were to encounter it but

2064
01:06:40,630 --> 01:06:39,839
does that mean that we can't perceive it

2065
01:06:43,589 --> 01:06:40,640
we can see

2066
01:06:45,029 --> 01:06:43,599
for example a whirlpool or a hurricane

2067
01:06:45,990 --> 01:06:45,039
whether or not we can communicate with

2068
01:06:48,069 --> 01:06:46,000
it is another issue

2069
01:06:49,670 --> 01:06:48,079
so i mean the first step is there's a

2070
01:06:51,589 --> 01:06:49,680
level where we don't even see it because

2071
01:06:53,270 --> 01:06:51,599
it's it's it's features of the structure

2072
01:06:54,870 --> 01:06:53,280
of space that we are simply not paying

2073
01:06:56,870 --> 01:06:54,880
any attention to

2074
01:06:59,029 --> 01:06:56,880
you know there there's some detail it's

2075
01:07:01,109 --> 01:06:59,039
like like for example

2076
01:07:02,309 --> 01:07:01,119
one of my guesses about you know i like

2077
01:07:07,589 --> 01:07:02,319
to think about

2078
01:07:09,349 --> 01:07:07,599
people make mistakes in the past

2079
01:07:11,270 --> 01:07:09,359
how were things that became obvious

2080
01:07:14,069 --> 01:07:11,280
later not seen before

2081
01:07:14,549 --> 01:07:14,079
and so a question about today's sciences

2082
01:07:16,230 --> 01:07:14,559
what

2083
01:07:18,710 --> 01:07:16,240
is there in today's science that people

2084
01:07:21,589 --> 01:07:18,720
will say i can't believe

2085
01:07:23,430 --> 01:07:21,599
that they didn't see this and i'll give

2086
01:07:24,549 --> 01:07:23,440
you an example one that i suspect is is

2087
01:07:26,470 --> 01:07:24,559
one of those

2088
01:07:28,309 --> 01:07:26,480
so you look at a gas it's got a bunch of

2089
01:07:30,150 --> 01:07:28,319
molecules bouncing around

2090
01:07:31,510 --> 01:07:30,160
we say the gas has certain pressure it

2091
01:07:33,349 --> 01:07:31,520
has a certain temperature

2092
01:07:34,630 --> 01:07:33,359
but all those details about all the gas

2093
01:07:36,870 --> 01:07:34,640
molecules bouncing around

2094
01:07:38,549 --> 01:07:36,880
we just say that's entropy there's no

2095
01:07:40,470 --> 01:07:38,559
there's no detail there that we care

2096
01:07:43,190 --> 01:07:40,480
about it's just random

2097
01:07:44,230 --> 01:07:43,200
that's probably wrong there's probably

2098
01:07:47,190 --> 01:07:44,240
another

2099
01:07:49,430 --> 01:07:47,200
you know whole pile of other properties

2100
01:07:52,069 --> 01:07:49,440
that we should be thinking about there

2101
01:07:53,029 --> 01:07:52,079
but we're just not paying attention to

2102
01:07:55,510 --> 01:07:53,039
so to speak

2103
01:07:56,309 --> 01:07:55,520
and so that's that's an example of of a

2104
01:07:58,390 --> 01:07:56,319
place where

2105
01:07:59,589 --> 01:07:58,400
sort of the extraterrestrials could be

2106
01:08:02,150 --> 01:07:59,599
all around us

2107
01:08:02,950 --> 01:08:02,160
and we just wouldn't know it because

2108
01:08:05,910 --> 01:08:02,960
they are

2109
01:08:06,950 --> 01:08:05,920
sort of their civilization so to speak

2110
01:08:09,029 --> 01:08:06,960
lives in

2111
01:08:10,150 --> 01:08:09,039
features of space that we are simply not

2112
01:08:11,829 --> 01:08:10,160
paying attention to

2113
01:08:13,349 --> 01:08:11,839
so that's one possibility another

2114
01:08:16,470 --> 01:08:13,359
possibility is

2115
01:08:19,669 --> 01:08:16,480
uh yes there are

2116
01:08:21,990 --> 01:08:19,679
things that we can perceive

2117
01:08:23,030 --> 01:08:22,000
but they just don't make any sense to us

2118
01:08:26,229 --> 01:08:23,040
it isn't it doesn't

2119
01:08:27,430 --> 01:08:26,239
uh you know it's like um uh like the

2120
01:08:30,630 --> 01:08:27,440
weather for example

2121
01:08:33,590 --> 01:08:30,640
where it doesn't uh it

2122
01:08:34,149 --> 01:08:33,600
it makes i mean you know it makes no

2123
01:08:36,070 --> 01:08:34,159
sense

2124
01:08:38,309 --> 01:08:36,080
we don't have you know what would you

2125
01:08:39,590 --> 01:08:38,319
talk to the weather about you know what

2126
01:08:41,430 --> 01:08:39,600
is its experience

2127
01:08:42,709 --> 01:08:41,440
in order to you know what do we talk to

2128
01:08:44,309 --> 01:08:42,719
animals about well

2129
01:08:45,829 --> 01:08:44,319
not a lot really because you know

2130
01:08:47,510 --> 01:08:45,839
there's certain emotional

2131
01:08:49,669 --> 01:08:47,520
kind of commonality that we have with

2132
01:08:52,149 --> 01:08:49,679
animals at some level but mostly

2133
01:08:53,990 --> 01:08:52,159
we can't really have a a philosophical

2134
01:08:54,870 --> 01:08:54,000
discussion with your average bear so to

2135
01:08:58,789 --> 01:08:54,880
speak

2136
01:09:01,910 --> 01:08:58,799
um and uh the i think the reason

2137
01:09:04,870 --> 01:09:01,920
uh you know that that's something that

2138
01:09:06,309 --> 01:09:04,880
it it isn't you know there's a separate

2139
01:09:09,189 --> 01:09:06,319
level of issue

2140
01:09:10,070 --> 01:09:09,199
of sort of the the um uh sort of this

2141
01:09:12,070 --> 01:09:10,080
this um

2142
01:09:14,390 --> 01:09:12,080
beyond just perceiving that the thing is

2143
01:09:16,309 --> 01:09:14,400
out there it's like why is it doing what

2144
01:09:17,749 --> 01:09:16,319
it's doing do we have a story about why

2145
01:09:19,430 --> 01:09:17,759
it's doing what it's doing

2146
01:09:21,669 --> 01:09:19,440
do you know if we don't have any such

2147
01:09:23,590 --> 01:09:21,679
understanding and even across time

2148
01:09:25,590 --> 01:09:23,600
for for our own species you know you

2149
01:09:27,030 --> 01:09:25,600
look at archaeological remains

2150
01:09:28,630 --> 01:09:27,040
from a few thousand years ago it's like

2151
01:09:29,669 --> 01:09:28,640
what on earth were they thinking we have

2152
01:09:31,110 --> 01:09:29,679
no idea

2153
01:09:33,030 --> 01:09:31,120
you know what would be our

2154
01:09:33,510 --> 01:09:33,040
communications it might we might be you

2155
01:09:35,590 --> 01:09:33,520
know we

2156
01:09:37,189 --> 01:09:35,600
put ourselves down a time machine which

2157
01:09:38,149 --> 01:09:37,199
i don't think can exist but anyway

2158
01:09:42,229 --> 01:09:38,159
imagine it

2159
01:09:45,590 --> 01:09:42,239
um you know and when we say uh to some

2160
01:09:48,789 --> 01:09:45,600
the the to some um um you know

2161
01:09:49,990 --> 01:09:48,799
person from 3000 years ago uh you know

2162
01:09:52,229 --> 01:09:50,000
what are you doing

2163
01:09:54,070 --> 01:09:52,239
oh they give a whole explanation about

2164
01:09:55,830 --> 01:09:54,080
you know they're pleasing the gods by

2165
01:09:56,870 --> 01:09:55,840
doing this thing that does this that

2166
01:09:58,149 --> 01:09:56,880
does that

2167
01:10:01,189 --> 01:09:58,159
and it's like what the heck are you

2168
01:10:03,270 --> 01:10:01,199
talking about you know we have no common

2169
01:10:04,550 --> 01:10:03,280
uh framework for thinking about these

2170
01:10:06,790 --> 01:10:04,560
kinds of things

2171
01:10:07,669 --> 01:10:06,800
um so i think that that's you know the

2172
01:10:09,910 --> 01:10:07,679
the level

2173
01:10:12,470 --> 01:10:09,920
at which communication is possible is is

2174
01:10:14,550 --> 01:10:12,480
pretty it's pretty narrow

2175
01:10:16,070 --> 01:10:14,560
is there a way in which this entire

2176
01:10:19,270 --> 01:10:16,080
hypergraph or our entire

2177
01:10:20,950 --> 01:10:19,280
universe is conscious much like you

2178
01:10:21,350 --> 01:10:20,960
mentioned we can have consciousness or

2179
01:10:23,430 --> 01:10:21,360
different

2180
01:10:25,030 --> 01:10:23,440
into alien intelligence running through

2181
01:10:26,070 --> 01:10:25,040
us in an ether that we can't interact

2182
01:10:28,470 --> 01:10:26,080
with either because

2183
01:10:29,590 --> 01:10:28,480
computationally irreducible so we can't

2184
01:10:32,790 --> 01:10:29,600
we don't discern it

2185
01:10:36,470 --> 01:10:32,800
or because well because

2186
01:10:40,470 --> 01:10:36,480
whatever reason so so yes i mean

2187
01:10:42,070 --> 01:10:40,480
okay there are sort of

2188
01:10:44,310 --> 01:10:42,080
there's intelligence there's

2189
01:10:45,430 --> 01:10:44,320
consciousness i think they're somewhat

2190
01:10:48,470 --> 01:10:45,440
different

2191
01:10:50,149 --> 01:10:48,480
so intelligent in any definition of that

2192
01:10:51,590 --> 01:10:50,159
that is a generalization beyond the

2193
01:10:53,510 --> 01:10:51,600
purely human

2194
01:10:54,630 --> 01:10:53,520
i think in in any reasonable definition

2195
01:10:57,030 --> 01:10:54,640
one would say the universe is

2196
01:11:00,070 --> 01:10:57,040
intelligent

2197
01:11:02,070 --> 01:11:00,080
it is yes it is okay the now

2198
01:11:04,310 --> 01:11:02,080
conscious it's a little bit more tricky

2199
01:11:05,590 --> 01:11:04,320
because it seems that consciousness is

2200
01:11:09,189 --> 01:11:05,600
actually a step down

2201
01:11:10,870 --> 01:11:09,199
from intelligence that is you can be you

2202
01:11:11,350 --> 01:11:10,880
know all those individual neurons all

2203
01:11:13,990 --> 01:11:11,360
those

2204
01:11:15,750 --> 01:11:14,000
like our immune system might be

2205
01:11:18,070 --> 01:11:15,760
something that is doing computations as

2206
01:11:19,910 --> 01:11:18,080
sophisticated as our brains for all we

2207
01:11:21,030 --> 01:11:19,920
we can tell the immune system is you

2208
01:11:23,030 --> 01:11:21,040
know has all these complicated

2209
01:11:24,870 --> 01:11:23,040
interactions between cells and so on

2210
01:11:26,709 --> 01:11:24,880
but yet there's something a little

2211
01:11:28,229 --> 01:11:26,719
different about the way the computations

2212
01:11:30,070 --> 01:11:28,239
that our brains do

2213
01:11:31,510 --> 01:11:30,080
from from the ones our immune system

2214
01:11:34,229 --> 01:11:31,520
does or that seems to be

2215
01:11:34,950 --> 01:11:34,239
and one of the differences is that we

2216
01:11:39,110 --> 01:11:34,960
have this

2217
01:11:41,430 --> 01:11:39,120
notion of a single thread of experience

2218
01:11:43,750 --> 01:11:41,440
and that's a feature of of the kind of

2219
01:11:46,950 --> 01:11:43,760
thing that our brains do

2220
01:11:47,990 --> 01:11:46,960
that isn't an immediate feature of the

2221
01:11:52,390 --> 01:11:48,000
way that

2222
01:11:55,030 --> 01:11:52,400
computational processes

2223
01:11:56,870 --> 01:11:55,040
that sort of seem like that that have

2224
01:11:58,630 --> 01:11:56,880
intelligent like behavior

2225
01:12:01,110 --> 01:11:58,640
it's not a feature of those so

2226
01:12:02,950 --> 01:12:01,120
consciousness i i have come to think

2227
01:12:05,110 --> 01:12:02,960
is a step down from intelligence

2228
01:12:08,550 --> 01:12:05,120
consciousness is a specific

2229
01:12:10,070 --> 01:12:08,560
uh sort of a specific

2230
01:12:12,390 --> 01:12:10,080
thing that gets added on top of

2231
01:12:14,870 --> 01:12:12,400
intelligence that is

2232
01:12:15,750 --> 01:12:14,880
sort of this the single thread of time

2233
01:12:17,669 --> 01:12:15,760
story

2234
01:12:19,030 --> 01:12:17,679
and also this computational boundedness

2235
01:12:20,870 --> 01:12:19,040
but that kind of

2236
01:12:22,630 --> 01:12:20,880
that's kind of a necessary thing but

2237
01:12:24,709 --> 01:12:22,640
it's it's this it's this idea of a

2238
01:12:27,910 --> 01:12:24,719
single thread of time i think

2239
01:12:31,270 --> 01:12:27,920
is is sort of a critical feature of that

2240
01:12:32,950 --> 01:12:31,280
adds kind of um uh that's the layer that

2241
01:12:34,229 --> 01:12:32,960
adds consciousness so does the universe

2242
01:12:36,149 --> 01:12:34,239
have that

2243
01:12:37,750 --> 01:12:36,159
not really the universe doesn't have

2244
01:12:40,149 --> 01:12:37,760
that in fact the universe

2245
01:12:41,669 --> 01:12:40,159
in our models it's got all these atoms

2246
01:12:43,189 --> 01:12:41,679
of space that are doing all these things

2247
01:12:45,030 --> 01:12:43,199
all over the universe

2248
01:12:46,870 --> 01:12:45,040
there's no single thread of time there's

2249
01:12:48,310 --> 01:12:46,880
no single thread of experience

2250
01:12:50,229 --> 01:12:48,320
lots of different things are happening

2251
01:12:51,669 --> 01:12:50,239
all over the universe lots of different

2252
01:12:53,590 --> 01:12:51,679
space-like separated things are

2253
01:12:55,110 --> 01:12:53,600
happening lots of different branch-like

2254
01:12:57,590 --> 01:12:55,120
separated things are happening

2255
01:12:59,189 --> 01:12:57,600
so there isn't that single thread type

2256
01:13:01,510 --> 01:12:59,199
type experience

2257
01:13:03,430 --> 01:13:01,520
so i think in that sense i would i would

2258
01:13:05,510 --> 01:13:03,440
say that in that what seems to be the

2259
01:13:06,870 --> 01:13:05,520
appropriate definition of consciousness

2260
01:13:09,110 --> 01:13:06,880
the appropriate generalization of

2261
01:13:11,750 --> 01:13:09,120
consciousness beyond the merely human

2262
01:13:13,110 --> 01:13:11,760
wouldn't encompass the universe um

2263
01:13:17,510 --> 01:13:13,120
intelligence would encompass the

2264
01:13:21,270 --> 01:13:19,030
you mentioned photons not having an

2265
01:13:23,270 --> 01:13:21,280
experience of time in your model do you

2266
01:13:24,550 --> 01:13:23,280
have a conceptualization of photons

2267
01:13:26,709 --> 01:13:24,560
because it seems like there's different

2268
01:13:27,510 --> 01:13:26,719
time steps and time is just the

2269
01:13:31,189 --> 01:13:27,520
inelectable

2270
01:13:32,390 --> 01:13:31,199
sequence of updating so what's a photon

2271
01:13:36,229 --> 01:13:32,400
is it one that goes

2272
01:13:39,270 --> 01:13:36,239
well we're not sure yet completely

2273
01:13:41,350 --> 01:13:39,280
but um uh

2274
01:13:42,950 --> 01:13:41,360
the possibility of something moving at

2275
01:13:44,470 --> 01:13:42,960
the speed of light the speed of light is

2276
01:13:47,510 --> 01:13:44,480
defined in our models

2277
01:13:48,229 --> 01:13:47,520
by you have one event and you say how

2278
01:13:49,990 --> 01:13:48,239
many other

2279
01:13:51,270 --> 01:13:50,000
events does that event lead to that's

2280
01:13:53,750 --> 01:13:51,280
the light cone

2281
01:13:54,870 --> 01:13:53,760
of uh of what you produce and so photons

2282
01:13:57,430 --> 01:13:54,880
have to live on the

2283
01:13:58,550 --> 01:13:57,440
uh at least close to the the edges of

2284
01:14:00,550 --> 01:13:58,560
that light cone

2285
01:14:01,669 --> 01:14:00,560
and so that's that's sort of what tells

2286
01:14:03,270 --> 01:14:01,679
us something about

2287
01:14:04,709 --> 01:14:03,280
the kind of structures that photons

2288
01:14:05,830 --> 01:14:04,719
correspond to we don't know exactly what

2289
01:14:08,229 --> 01:14:05,840
they are yet

2290
01:14:08,870 --> 01:14:08,239
i think the thing that one can realize

2291
01:14:16,950 --> 01:14:08,880
is

2292
01:14:19,430 --> 01:14:16,960
if you are an entity within our system

2293
01:14:20,630 --> 01:14:19,440
you have you are you are using

2294
01:14:23,910 --> 01:14:20,640
computation

2295
01:14:25,430 --> 01:14:23,920
to progress so to speak and you can use

2296
01:14:26,550 --> 01:14:25,440
that computation if you're just sitting

2297
01:14:28,870 --> 01:14:26,560
still

2298
01:14:31,030 --> 01:14:28,880
all that computation gets used to

2299
01:14:33,189 --> 01:14:31,040
actually move you forward in time

2300
01:14:34,390 --> 01:14:33,199
all that computation gets used to figure

2301
01:14:36,550 --> 01:14:34,400
out the next

2302
01:14:38,310 --> 01:14:36,560
configuration that you have in time if

2303
01:14:40,390 --> 01:14:38,320
you're also moving

2304
01:14:41,990 --> 01:14:40,400
some of that computation has to be used

2305
01:14:43,669 --> 01:14:42,000
up in recomputing

2306
01:14:45,270 --> 01:14:43,679
what you're like at a different place in

2307
01:14:47,030 --> 01:14:45,280
space that's interesting that's

2308
01:14:48,149 --> 01:14:47,040
basically what leads to time dilation

2309
01:14:51,189 --> 01:14:48,159
and relativity

2310
01:14:52,870 --> 01:14:51,199
is that you're trading off the use of

2311
01:14:54,790 --> 01:14:52,880
uh you know you're trading off the

2312
01:14:56,390 --> 01:14:54,800
computation used for motion

2313
01:14:58,470 --> 01:14:56,400
with the computation used for time

2314
01:15:00,950 --> 01:14:58,480
evolution so if you are

2315
01:15:02,390 --> 01:15:00,960
if you have motion then you get to use

2316
01:15:03,189 --> 01:15:02,400
less of that computation for time

2317
01:15:05,990 --> 01:15:03,199
evolution

2318
01:15:07,350 --> 01:15:06,000
and time effectively runs more slowly um

2319
01:15:08,630 --> 01:15:07,360
and so for photons

2320
01:15:10,470 --> 01:15:08,640
there's probably there's there's

2321
01:15:11,910 --> 01:15:10,480
presumably an extreme version of that

2322
01:15:13,830 --> 01:15:11,920
but we don't understand the details of

2323
01:15:16,390 --> 01:15:13,840
that yet

2324
01:15:18,149 --> 01:15:16,400
when it comes to real space there's a

2325
01:15:20,630 --> 01:15:18,159
quote i believe i took it from

2326
01:15:22,470 --> 01:15:20,640
one of your papers it says the principle

2327
01:15:24,709 --> 01:15:22,480
of computational equivalence implies a

2328
01:15:26,709 --> 01:15:24,719
fixed maximum speed row

2329
01:15:29,110 --> 01:15:26,719
in rule space now is this principle

2330
01:15:30,790 --> 01:15:29,120
taken as an axiom or is it derived

2331
01:15:32,630 --> 01:15:30,800
and and how exactly do you derive that

2332
01:15:35,830 --> 01:15:32,640
maximum speed

2333
01:15:39,110 --> 01:15:35,840
without that axiom or can you okay

2334
01:15:40,550 --> 01:15:39,120
so the epistemology of science is more

2335
01:15:41,510 --> 01:15:40,560
complicated than people often give it

2336
01:15:42,709 --> 01:15:41,520
credit for

2337
01:15:46,390 --> 01:15:42,719
the principle of computational

2338
01:15:49,750 --> 01:15:48,149
it has a complicated epistemological

2339
01:15:51,270 --> 01:15:49,760
status

2340
01:15:54,229 --> 01:15:51,280
somewhat similar to the second law of

2341
01:15:56,310 --> 01:15:54,239
thermodynamics somewhat similar to

2342
01:15:58,390 --> 01:15:56,320
things like the church touring thesis

2343
01:16:00,950 --> 01:15:58,400
they're all the same kind of thing

2344
01:16:03,350 --> 01:16:00,960
so the second law of thermodynamics is

2345
01:16:06,149 --> 01:16:03,360
both a definition of heat

2346
01:16:08,070 --> 01:16:06,159
and a statement about how systems in the

2347
01:16:10,630 --> 01:16:08,080
universe tend to work

2348
01:16:11,189 --> 01:16:10,640
and a mathematically provable thing it

2349
01:16:12,709 --> 01:16:11,199
is both

2350
01:16:14,310 --> 01:16:12,719
all of those things are none of those

2351
01:16:15,430 --> 01:16:14,320
things so in other words

2352
01:16:18,470 --> 01:16:15,440
the principle of computational

2353
01:16:21,110 --> 01:16:18,480
equivalence if you

2354
01:16:21,910 --> 01:16:21,120
is something for which we actually have

2355
01:16:23,750 --> 01:16:21,920
good

2356
01:16:25,270 --> 01:16:23,760
evidence that is the principle of

2357
01:16:26,470 --> 01:16:25,280
computational equivalence basically says

2358
01:16:27,910 --> 01:16:26,480
if you have a system that operates

2359
01:16:30,149 --> 01:16:27,920
according to rules

2360
01:16:32,070 --> 01:16:30,159
if the behavior that you see is not

2361
01:16:34,630 --> 01:16:32,080
obviously simple

2362
01:16:36,630 --> 01:16:34,640
the the behavior will correspond to a

2363
01:16:37,510 --> 01:16:36,640
computation that is as sophisticated as

2364
01:16:40,070 --> 01:16:37,520
anything

2365
01:16:40,630 --> 01:16:40,080
that's the basic statement so it implies

2366
01:16:43,110 --> 01:16:40,640
that

2367
01:16:44,790 --> 01:16:43,120
your average thing even though its rules

2368
01:16:46,390 --> 01:16:44,800
may be simple so long as its behavior

2369
01:16:48,470 --> 01:16:46,400
isn't obviously simple

2370
01:16:50,149 --> 01:16:48,480
will tend to be for example computation

2371
01:16:51,990 --> 01:16:50,159
universal

2372
01:16:53,990 --> 01:16:52,000
to interrupt sorry what do you mean by

2373
01:16:55,750 --> 01:16:54,000
isn't obviously simple

2374
01:16:57,270 --> 01:16:55,760
so can you give me an example of

2375
01:16:59,189 --> 01:16:57,280
something that is

2376
01:17:00,470 --> 01:16:59,199
computationally inequivalent yeah yeah

2377
01:17:03,430 --> 01:17:00,480
right so so

2378
01:17:05,430 --> 01:17:03,440
repetitive behavior is obviously simple

2379
01:17:06,550 --> 01:17:05,440
nested fractal behavior is obviously

2380
01:17:10,070 --> 01:17:06,560
simple

2381
01:17:11,750 --> 01:17:10,080
it's things where we can readily predict

2382
01:17:12,790 --> 01:17:11,760
where we can use a much simpler

2383
01:17:16,149 --> 01:17:12,800
computation

2384
01:17:18,470 --> 01:17:16,159
to jump ahead where we can say uh

2385
01:17:19,990 --> 01:17:18,480
you know you've shown me a few steps now

2386
01:17:21,590 --> 01:17:20,000
i know what's going to happen

2387
01:17:23,510 --> 01:17:21,600
i can predict a billion steps in the

2388
01:17:24,870 --> 01:17:23,520
future what's going to happen now all of

2389
01:17:27,189 --> 01:17:24,880
these concepts

2390
01:17:28,229 --> 01:17:27,199
there so so that's what it means to be

2391
01:17:31,350 --> 01:17:28,239
computationally

2392
01:17:34,470 --> 01:17:31,360
that that's what it means to be not uh

2393
01:17:36,229 --> 01:17:34,480
you know to to be to not seem like it

2394
01:17:40,149 --> 01:17:36,239
has complicated behavior

2395
01:17:41,590 --> 01:17:40,159
now as you start trying to i mean

2396
01:17:43,189 --> 01:17:41,600
the thing that's interesting about all

2397
01:17:46,149 --> 01:17:43,199
of these principles

2398
01:17:47,510 --> 01:17:46,159
is that as you start trying to put

2399
01:17:49,510 --> 01:17:47,520
stakes in the ground of what does this

2400
01:17:53,030 --> 01:17:49,520
precisely mathematically mean

2401
01:17:55,350 --> 01:17:53,040
you realize that the thing is

2402
01:17:56,790 --> 01:17:55,360
it ends up being you know the principle

2403
01:17:59,830 --> 01:17:56,800
of computational equivalence

2404
01:18:00,149 --> 01:17:59,840
is at some level an abstract fact about

2405
01:18:03,910 --> 01:18:00,159
some

2406
01:18:07,030 --> 01:18:03,920
about rules it's an abstract fact

2407
01:18:09,430 --> 01:18:07,040
um and it can be proved at least in

2408
01:18:12,470 --> 01:18:09,440
certain examples as an abstract fact

2409
01:18:15,510 --> 01:18:12,480
but you might say that thing over there

2410
01:18:17,270 --> 01:18:15,520
i can i don't see how it's simple

2411
01:18:18,630 --> 01:18:17,280
so it must be computationally as

2412
01:18:20,310 --> 01:18:18,640
sophisticated as anything

2413
01:18:21,830 --> 01:18:20,320
but then somebody can say oh you missed

2414
01:18:22,790 --> 01:18:21,840
this particular way in which it was

2415
01:18:25,189 --> 01:18:22,800
simple

2416
01:18:26,790 --> 01:18:25,199
so you know and that's why it isn't as

2417
01:18:28,070 --> 01:18:26,800
computationally sophisticated

2418
01:18:30,229 --> 01:18:28,080
but then you can say that sort of

2419
01:18:32,390 --> 01:18:30,239
tautological because if

2420
01:18:34,070 --> 01:18:32,400
if it's computationally sophisticated

2421
01:18:35,590 --> 01:18:34,080
that's basically the statement that it

2422
01:18:36,630 --> 01:18:35,600
doesn't have any simple way to work out

2423
01:18:39,030 --> 01:18:36,640
what it does so

2424
01:18:40,229 --> 01:18:39,040
it's it's the the thing that's important

2425
01:18:42,149 --> 01:18:40,239
about principle of computational

2426
01:18:45,110 --> 01:18:42,159
equivalence is that it is a

2427
01:18:47,030 --> 01:18:45,120
a conceptual framework for thinking

2428
01:18:48,070 --> 01:18:47,040
about how things work that is people had

2429
01:18:50,950 --> 01:18:48,080
the idea

2430
01:18:52,550 --> 01:18:50,960
including me that you have simple rules

2431
01:18:55,110 --> 01:18:52,560
you'll have simple behavior

2432
01:18:57,669 --> 01:18:55,120
it's not true and this principle tells

2433
01:19:00,070 --> 01:18:57,679
you that it is maximally not true

2434
01:19:01,830 --> 01:19:00,080
in other words whenever it seems like it

2435
01:19:02,550 --> 01:19:01,840
might not be the case that the behavior

2436
01:19:04,709 --> 01:19:02,560
is simple

2437
01:19:07,030 --> 01:19:04,719
it really isn't and it is sort of as

2438
01:19:10,870 --> 01:19:07,040
sophisticated as you can possibly get

2439
01:19:13,590 --> 01:19:10,880
so the the um with respect to speed in

2440
01:19:17,189 --> 01:19:13,600
royal space

2441
01:19:20,870 --> 01:19:17,199
that assumption of a maximum upper limit

2442
01:19:24,390 --> 01:19:22,550
yeah you could derive the upper limit

2443
01:19:26,550 --> 01:19:24,400
from the church touring thesis

2444
01:19:28,950 --> 01:19:26,560
which is a a sort of subset of the

2445
01:19:32,550 --> 01:19:28,960
principle of computational equivalence

2446
01:19:32,870 --> 01:19:32,560
so that so i mean that particular thing

2447
01:19:37,830 --> 01:19:32,880
is

2448
01:19:40,950 --> 01:19:37,840
think it needs um

2449
01:19:44,229 --> 01:19:40,960
uh to derive the upper limit what what

2450
01:19:45,350 --> 01:19:44,239
what is not obvious is that the typical

2451
01:19:47,510 --> 01:19:45,360
light cone

2452
01:19:48,390 --> 01:19:47,520
will have a surface that is like that in

2453
01:19:51,110 --> 01:19:48,400
royal space

2454
01:19:53,669 --> 01:19:51,120
that needs pce so what it's saying is

2455
01:19:57,189 --> 01:19:53,679
the church touring thesis would say

2456
01:19:57,830 --> 01:19:57,199
that there exists things that go as fast

2457
01:20:04,470 --> 01:19:57,840
as

2458
01:20:07,110 --> 01:20:04,480
your average light cone in rural space

2459
01:20:10,310 --> 01:20:07,120
will in fact expand at that speed

2460
01:20:11,350 --> 01:20:10,320
um that's interesting so so okay so that

2461
01:20:16,830 --> 01:20:11,360
then

2462
01:20:21,910 --> 01:20:18,149
uh

2463
01:20:24,070 --> 01:20:21,920
so the maximum speed in royal space

2464
01:20:25,030 --> 01:20:24,080
is essentially telling you something

2465
01:20:27,590 --> 01:20:25,040
about the actual

2466
01:20:28,870 --> 01:20:27,600
raw processing power of the universe

2467
01:20:31,189 --> 01:20:28,880
it's telling you

2468
01:20:32,229 --> 01:20:31,199
um i mean it's i was i think i'd written

2469
01:20:33,669 --> 01:20:32,239
somewhere in a

2470
01:20:35,350 --> 01:20:33,679
in kind of you could you could take it

2471
01:20:36,229 --> 01:20:35,360
in any kind of computational units but

2472
01:20:37,750 --> 01:20:36,239
you can say

2473
01:20:39,990 --> 01:20:37,760
you know number of wolfram language

2474
01:20:43,110 --> 01:20:40,000
tokens processed per second

2475
01:20:45,430 --> 01:20:43,120
is by the universe it's kind of one one

2476
01:20:48,629 --> 01:20:45,440
way of of measuring that

2477
01:20:51,830 --> 01:20:48,639
something we realized recently is that

2478
01:20:54,070 --> 01:20:51,840
um coarse graining

2479
01:20:55,910 --> 01:20:54,080
that is the process of not looking at

2480
01:20:57,270 --> 01:20:55,920
every detail but looking only at a large

2481
01:20:58,830 --> 01:20:57,280
scale which you use in statistical

2482
01:21:01,830 --> 01:20:58,840
mechanics and so on

2483
01:21:03,750 --> 01:21:01,840
um course screening in rule space

2484
01:21:04,950 --> 01:21:03,760
is making a higher level description

2485
01:21:06,470 --> 01:21:04,960
language

2486
01:21:07,830 --> 01:21:06,480
so in other words you can make a

2487
01:21:09,030 --> 01:21:07,840
description language that's really at

2488
01:21:10,550 --> 01:21:09,040
the lowest level

2489
01:21:13,030 --> 01:21:10,560
where you're actually describing how

2490
01:21:14,470 --> 01:21:13,040
every everything works or you can have a

2491
01:21:16,870 --> 01:21:14,480
higher level language

2492
01:21:18,550 --> 01:21:16,880
which describes only more in in sort of

2493
01:21:19,669 --> 01:21:18,560
higher level terms what's going on

2494
01:21:22,390 --> 01:21:19,679
what's the relationship between

2495
01:21:26,830 --> 01:21:22,400
computational irreducibility and

2496
01:21:29,590 --> 01:21:26,840
undecidability general undecidability so

2497
01:21:30,870 --> 01:21:29,600
um also the relationship between the

2498
01:21:32,709 --> 01:21:30,880
reducibility and the

2499
01:21:34,390 --> 01:21:32,719
principle of computational equivalence

2500
01:21:35,910 --> 01:21:34,400
does one require the other can you

2501
01:21:36,790 --> 01:21:35,920
imagine a world with one but not the

2502
01:21:38,070 --> 01:21:36,800
other

2503
01:21:39,750 --> 01:21:38,080
so principle of computational

2504
01:21:41,189 --> 01:21:39,760
equivalence implies computational

2505
01:21:43,590 --> 01:21:41,199
releasability

2506
01:21:44,470 --> 01:21:43,600
and and basically they're really locked

2507
01:21:47,189 --> 01:21:44,480
together

2508
01:21:48,310 --> 01:21:47,199
because what happens is you have a

2509
01:21:49,910 --> 01:21:48,320
system

2510
01:21:52,709 --> 01:21:49,920
it's computing what it's going to do

2511
01:21:53,990 --> 01:21:52,719
next you are an observer of that system

2512
01:21:55,350 --> 01:21:54,000
you're trying to predict what it's going

2513
01:21:57,990 --> 01:21:55,360
to do next

2514
01:21:59,430 --> 01:21:58,000
the question is can you jump ahead of it

2515
01:22:01,110 --> 01:21:59,440
and figure out what it's going to do

2516
01:22:02,629 --> 01:22:01,120
sort of more efficiently than it does

2517
01:22:04,229 --> 01:22:02,639
itself

2518
01:22:07,189 --> 01:22:04,239
principle of computational equivalence

2519
01:22:09,830 --> 01:22:07,199
says you sorry you're stuck being just

2520
01:22:11,430 --> 01:22:09,840
computationally equivalent to the system

2521
01:22:13,310 --> 01:22:11,440
and that's what leads to computational

2522
01:22:15,750 --> 01:22:13,320
irreducibility

2523
01:22:18,149 --> 01:22:15,760
undecidability is an infinite time limit

2524
01:22:21,189 --> 01:22:18,159
of computational irreducibility

2525
01:22:25,110 --> 01:22:21,199
computational irreducibility

2526
01:22:25,510 --> 01:22:25,120
is a if you say what's the system going

2527
01:22:27,669 --> 01:22:25,520
to do

2528
01:22:28,709 --> 01:22:27,679
in the end after an infinite amount of

2529
01:22:32,470 --> 01:22:28,719
time

2530
01:22:34,629 --> 01:22:32,480
the answer uh can be

2531
01:22:36,470 --> 01:22:34,639
well in order if it's computationally

2532
01:22:38,229 --> 01:22:36,480
irreducible the only way to find that

2533
01:22:39,750 --> 01:22:38,239
out is to wait for a potentially

2534
01:22:41,830 --> 01:22:39,760
infinite amount of time

2535
01:22:43,430 --> 01:22:41,840
so if you say i really want to know in

2536
01:22:44,070 --> 01:22:43,440
finite time what's the system going to

2537
01:22:46,790 --> 01:22:44,080
do

2538
01:22:47,750 --> 01:22:46,800
the answer is sorry it's computationally

2539
01:22:49,669 --> 01:22:47,760
irreducible

2540
01:22:52,470 --> 01:22:49,679
the only way to know that infinite time

2541
01:22:54,310 --> 01:22:52,480
answer is to wait an infinite time

2542
01:22:55,830 --> 01:22:54,320
so that that's the reason that um so

2543
01:22:57,590 --> 01:22:55,840
those uh you know

2544
01:22:59,030 --> 01:22:57,600
computational irreducibility implies

2545
01:23:04,830 --> 01:22:59,040
undecidability

2546
01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:09,189
uh um

2547
01:23:12,550 --> 01:23:11,830
i don't think so i think it might be uh

2548
01:23:14,629 --> 01:23:12,560
associated with

2549
01:23:16,070 --> 01:23:14,639
some things called intermediate degrees

2550
01:23:16,950 --> 01:23:16,080
which are an idea that you can have a

2551
01:23:18,830 --> 01:23:16,960
system which has

2552
01:23:21,189 --> 01:23:18,840
undecidability without computational

2553
01:23:23,590 --> 01:23:21,199
universality which i tend to think is

2554
01:23:25,189 --> 01:23:23,600
is not really it's not a real thing it's

2555
01:23:27,030 --> 01:23:25,199
a it's something people

2556
01:23:28,470 --> 01:23:27,040
imagine can happen in systems but i

2557
01:23:29,189 --> 01:23:28,480
don't think it will actually end up

2558
01:23:30,629 --> 01:23:29,199
happening

2559
01:23:32,870 --> 01:23:30,639
it's something where you can construct

2560
01:23:34,709 --> 01:23:32,880
examples which are kind of special put

2561
01:23:36,310 --> 01:23:34,719
up jobs where you essentially have a

2562
01:23:37,990 --> 01:23:36,320
universal computer inside

2563
01:23:39,430 --> 01:23:38,000
but you've chopped off all its input

2564
01:23:41,430 --> 01:23:39,440
output mechanisms

2565
01:23:43,030 --> 01:23:41,440
enough that it can't act as a universal

2566
01:23:44,229 --> 01:23:43,040
computer but can still have

2567
01:23:45,669 --> 01:23:44,239
undecidability and i

2568
01:23:47,510 --> 01:23:45,679
don't think that's a i don't think

2569
01:23:50,149 --> 01:23:47,520
that's a real real thing

2570
01:23:51,990 --> 01:23:50,159
but um uh yeah so so those are

2571
01:23:54,149 --> 01:23:52,000
undecidability is infinite time limits

2572
01:23:55,669 --> 01:23:54,159
of irreducibility basically

2573
01:23:57,270 --> 01:23:55,679
speaking of what's real or what's not

2574
01:24:01,350 --> 01:23:57,280
real is infinity

2575
01:24:05,990 --> 01:24:01,360
real who's infinity i mean

2576
01:24:09,750 --> 01:24:07,669
you can write down you know in wolfram

2577
01:24:11,669 --> 01:24:09,760
language there's a symbol infinity

2578
01:24:14,070 --> 01:24:11,679
that represents infinity and one over it

2579
01:24:15,189 --> 01:24:14,080
is zero and you can say lots of things

2580
01:24:19,350 --> 01:24:15,199
about it

2581
01:24:22,950 --> 01:24:19,360
if you want to ask the question can i

2582
01:24:26,870 --> 01:24:22,960
make an infinite

2583
01:24:28,470 --> 01:24:26,880
um can i sort of actualize infinity

2584
01:24:30,390 --> 01:24:28,480
that's this is a complicated question

2585
01:24:32,229 --> 01:24:30,400
because you can

2586
01:24:35,189 --> 01:24:32,239
certain kinds of infinities can be just

2587
01:24:38,310 --> 01:24:35,199
made symbolic and reasoned in terms of

2588
01:24:39,270 --> 01:24:38,320
to explicitly make infinity is a

2589
01:24:41,590 --> 01:24:39,280
different thing

2590
01:24:42,629 --> 01:24:41,600
than to reason in terms of infinity you

2591
01:24:44,709 --> 01:24:42,639
know we can write down

2592
01:24:46,310 --> 01:24:44,719
trans-finite numbers and we can do all

2593
01:24:46,950 --> 01:24:46,320
kinds of reasoning about transfinite

2594
01:24:49,030 --> 01:24:46,960
numbers

2595
01:24:50,229 --> 01:24:49,040
that doesn't mean we can explicitly in

2596
01:24:51,750 --> 01:24:50,239
our universe

2597
01:24:53,430 --> 01:24:51,760
make a birthday cake that's a

2598
01:24:56,310 --> 01:24:53,440
trans-finite number so to speak

2599
01:24:58,709 --> 01:24:56,320
i mean we we can't um so the question of

2600
01:25:00,229 --> 01:24:58,719
actualization in the universe versus

2601
01:25:01,990 --> 01:25:00,239
symbolic representation is a little bit

2602
01:25:04,310 --> 01:25:02,000
of a tricky question

2603
01:25:05,990 --> 01:25:04,320
okay forget about us making infinity is

2604
01:25:07,990 --> 01:25:06,000
there a quality of the universe that's

2605
01:25:08,629 --> 01:25:08,000
infinite at all so for example infinite

2606
01:25:10,629 --> 01:25:08,639
space

2607
01:25:12,550 --> 01:25:10,639
infinite computational speed infinite

2608
01:25:14,950 --> 01:25:12,560
memory storage

2609
01:25:16,149 --> 01:25:14,960
and and how can we enter even if there

2610
01:25:17,910 --> 01:25:16,159
was an infinite

2611
01:25:19,189 --> 01:25:17,920
is there a way that we could tell is

2612
01:25:21,430 --> 01:25:19,199
there an experiment

2613
01:25:23,270 --> 01:25:21,440
that would let us know that infinity

2614
01:25:25,350 --> 01:25:23,280
exists in some way shape or form

2615
01:25:26,950 --> 01:25:25,360
or is it somehow irreducible it would

2616
01:25:28,470 --> 01:25:26,960
look like noise to us

2617
01:25:30,070 --> 01:25:28,480
well i think we can wait for an infinite

2618
01:25:32,149 --> 01:25:30,080
time we'll know in the infinite future

2619
01:25:35,990 --> 01:25:32,159
we'll know if the universe is infinite

2620
01:25:40,950 --> 01:25:36,000
i mean i i think that before that we can

2621
01:25:45,350 --> 01:25:40,960
um you know the

2622
01:25:47,510 --> 01:25:45,360
the question for example is space uh

2623
01:25:49,590 --> 01:25:47,520
you know infinitely divisible that would

2624
01:25:53,510 --> 01:25:49,600
be a question we might ask

2625
01:25:56,550 --> 01:25:53,520
um i think

2626
01:25:58,550 --> 01:25:56,560
our models look like they're going to

2627
01:25:59,910 --> 01:25:58,560
make some very specific predictions

2628
01:26:01,669 --> 01:25:59,920
about what happens in

2629
01:26:03,510 --> 01:26:01,679
fast rotating black holes and things

2630
01:26:05,189 --> 01:26:03,520
like this where

2631
01:26:07,030 --> 01:26:05,199
they will kind of see through there'll

2632
01:26:09,350 --> 01:26:07,040
be a microscope that kind of sees

2633
01:26:10,310 --> 01:26:09,360
through down to the actual fabric of

2634
01:26:12,709 --> 01:26:10,320
space time

2635
01:26:14,229 --> 01:26:12,719
and actually sees these discrete things

2636
01:26:16,390 --> 01:26:14,239
and were we to be able to use that

2637
01:26:18,470 --> 01:26:16,400
microscope and work to see

2638
01:26:20,470 --> 01:26:18,480
you know where to just keep seeing you

2639
01:26:21,750 --> 01:26:20,480
know finer and finer and finer detail

2640
01:26:23,590 --> 01:26:21,760
you know in other words we look through

2641
01:26:25,430 --> 01:26:23,600
a physical microscope and

2642
01:26:27,189 --> 01:26:25,440
we're used to seeing oh you know the

2643
01:26:27,990 --> 01:26:27,199
biological organism actually is made of

2644
01:26:29,110 --> 01:26:28,000
cells oh

2645
01:26:30,550 --> 01:26:29,120
you know we look it's actually made of

2646
01:26:32,070 --> 01:26:30,560
molecules the molecules made our atoms

2647
01:26:35,189 --> 01:26:32,080
the atoms are made of whatever

2648
01:26:35,990 --> 01:26:35,199
you know and the question is space right

2649
01:26:39,110 --> 01:26:36,000
now we might

2650
01:26:40,870 --> 01:26:39,120
think our microscope for space we just

2651
01:26:42,550 --> 01:26:40,880
look and it keeps on looking the same

2652
01:26:44,470 --> 01:26:42,560
it's always indivisible you know it's

2653
01:26:46,470 --> 01:26:44,480
always it's always divisible

2654
01:26:47,669 --> 01:26:46,480
and the question is what we're saying in

2655
01:26:49,830 --> 01:26:47,679
this theory

2656
01:26:51,750 --> 01:26:49,840
is no at some point you'll see the atoms

2657
01:26:52,470 --> 01:26:51,760
of space now you don't really get to do

2658
01:26:55,430 --> 01:26:52,480
that

2659
01:26:57,110 --> 01:26:55,440
because you are embedded your microscope

2660
01:26:58,310 --> 01:26:57,120
is made of the same atoms of space so

2661
01:26:59,110 --> 01:26:58,320
you don't really get to make a

2662
01:27:00,390 --> 01:26:59,120
microscope

2663
01:27:02,310 --> 01:27:00,400
that directly sees that so you have to

2664
01:27:04,070 --> 01:27:02,320
use more indirect techniques

2665
01:27:05,510 --> 01:27:04,080
to be able to kind of sense the presence

2666
01:27:06,790 --> 01:27:05,520
of these atoms of space

2667
01:27:08,790 --> 01:27:06,800
but you could certainly imagine

2668
01:27:11,030 --> 01:27:08,800
something where

2669
01:27:12,870 --> 01:27:11,040
uh you know you could you could predict

2670
01:27:14,470 --> 01:27:12,880
we don't know what scale precisely these

2671
01:27:19,350 --> 01:27:14,480
atoms of space occur

2672
01:27:22,390 --> 01:27:21,590
uh you you're sort of making the

2673
01:27:24,950 --> 01:27:22,400
universe

2674
01:27:26,709 --> 01:27:24,960
be in in such an extreme condition that

2675
01:27:27,430 --> 01:27:26,719
you kind of see through to the structure

2676
01:27:29,350 --> 01:27:27,440
of space

2677
01:27:30,470 --> 01:27:29,360
it's very similar if you're going

2678
01:27:33,030 --> 01:27:30,480
through a fluid

2679
01:27:33,669 --> 01:27:33,040
you know a typical you know a car going

2680
01:27:35,910 --> 01:27:33,679
through air

2681
01:27:37,669 --> 01:27:35,920
doesn't know air is made of molecules it

2682
01:27:40,629 --> 01:27:37,679
just knows there's a flow of air

2683
01:27:41,990 --> 01:27:40,639
a hypersonic plane missile or something

2684
01:27:43,590 --> 01:27:42,000
going through air

2685
01:27:45,750 --> 01:27:43,600
absolutely does know that air is made of

2686
01:27:46,310 --> 01:27:45,760
molecules of oxygen and nitrogen and so

2687
01:27:48,629 --> 01:27:46,320
on

2688
01:27:49,590 --> 01:27:48,639
because at that speed you've kind of

2689
01:27:52,870 --> 01:27:49,600
broken down

2690
01:27:54,790 --> 01:27:52,880
this continuum structure of space

2691
01:27:56,229 --> 01:27:54,800
in that case of a fluid of the air

2692
01:27:57,430 --> 01:27:56,239
you've broken down the continuum

2693
01:27:59,189 --> 01:27:57,440
structure of the air

2694
01:28:00,629 --> 01:27:59,199
and you are sensitive to the presence of

2695
01:28:01,430 --> 01:28:00,639
individual molecules with particular

2696
01:28:03,750 --> 01:28:01,440
properties

2697
01:28:05,910 --> 01:28:03,760
and so the question is can we find

2698
01:28:06,629 --> 01:28:05,920
extreme situations in space-time for

2699
01:28:08,790 --> 01:28:06,639
example

2700
01:28:10,390 --> 01:28:08,800
where we're similarly sensitive to the

2701
01:28:13,110 --> 01:28:10,400
underlying structure

2702
01:28:14,870 --> 01:28:13,120
of of space and you know there's a

2703
01:28:16,550 --> 01:28:14,880
decent chance that we may have examples

2704
01:28:18,149 --> 01:28:16,560
of that

2705
01:28:20,390 --> 01:28:18,159
usually when talking about whether or

2706
01:28:21,270 --> 01:28:20,400
not space is discretized or on a lattice

2707
01:28:23,510 --> 01:28:21,280
in some way

2708
01:28:24,470 --> 01:28:23,520
people say well we have these fluids and

2709
01:28:25,669 --> 01:28:24,480
then as you

2710
01:28:26,709 --> 01:28:25,679
investigate further you find out that

2711
01:28:27,750 --> 01:28:26,719
they're atoms and we thought that they

2712
01:28:29,590 --> 01:28:27,760
were continuous

2713
01:28:31,110 --> 01:28:29,600
but then as you investigate the atoms

2714
01:28:32,550 --> 01:28:31,120
further you'll you find out that they're

2715
01:28:34,070 --> 01:28:32,560
quantum fields

2716
01:28:35,830 --> 01:28:34,080
and obviously then you can say well

2717
01:28:39,350 --> 01:28:35,840
those quantum fields are discretized

2718
01:28:40,830 --> 01:28:39,360
do you think that there's a place in

2719
01:28:44,390 --> 01:28:40,840
your models

2720
01:28:47,750 --> 01:28:44,400
for continuity underneath

2721
01:28:52,310 --> 01:28:47,760
what seems like discrete points so

2722
01:28:55,590 --> 01:28:53,510
anything that i can think of as

2723
01:28:57,510 --> 01:28:55,600
continuous there's some way maybe

2724
01:28:59,590 --> 01:28:57,520
a simplicial decomposition to make it

2725
01:29:01,590 --> 01:28:59,600
discrete but then also the same you can

2726
01:29:03,750 --> 01:29:01,600
apply step functions of a certain

2727
01:29:05,030 --> 01:29:03,760
width from something continuous to make

2728
01:29:06,709 --> 01:29:05,040
something discrete

2729
01:29:09,189 --> 01:29:06,719
so when someone says well this is

2730
01:29:11,590 --> 01:29:09,199
obviously discrete well

2731
01:29:14,310 --> 01:29:11,600
the argument can can be turned on itself

2732
01:29:17,750 --> 01:29:14,320
the thing to understand

2733
01:29:18,229 --> 01:29:17,760
the formalism of our models is probably

2734
01:29:21,350 --> 01:29:18,239
most

2735
01:29:26,310 --> 01:29:21,360
humanly stated in terms of hypographs

2736
01:29:30,709 --> 01:29:28,550
basically certainly the case that there

2737
01:29:31,830 --> 01:29:30,719
are for example algebraic formulations

2738
01:29:33,350 --> 01:29:31,840
of what we're doing

2739
01:29:35,030 --> 01:29:33,360
in fact some of the things from category

2740
01:29:38,310 --> 01:29:35,040
theory look that way

2741
01:29:40,229 --> 01:29:38,320
where you can think about it as features

2742
01:29:42,870 --> 01:29:40,239
of some continuous space

2743
01:29:44,950 --> 01:29:42,880
you know it is you know some algebraic

2744
01:29:46,790 --> 01:29:44,960
geometry feature of some continuous

2745
01:29:49,990 --> 01:29:46,800
space etc etc etc

2746
01:29:51,270 --> 01:29:50,000
the net result is it's just the same as

2747
01:29:53,030 --> 01:29:51,280
this hypergraph

2748
01:29:54,310 --> 01:29:53,040
but it is presented as something that

2749
01:29:57,669 --> 01:29:54,320
looks like

2750
01:29:59,110 --> 01:29:57,679
you know topological uh you know aspects

2751
01:30:02,149 --> 01:29:59,120
of the homotopies of

2752
01:30:03,270 --> 01:30:02,159
continuous spaces or something but it

2753
01:30:05,910 --> 01:30:03,280
looks like

2754
01:30:07,510 --> 01:30:05,920
but but a different interpretation is

2755
01:30:10,470 --> 01:30:07,520
that it's just this hypogolf

2756
01:30:12,149 --> 01:30:10,480
so there's nothing particularly special

2757
01:30:13,590 --> 01:30:12,159
about this hypergraph except that it's

2758
01:30:15,669 --> 01:30:13,600
the most human

2759
01:30:17,189 --> 01:30:15,679
relatable version of what's going on

2760
01:30:19,830 --> 01:30:17,199
i'll give you an analogy

2761
01:30:21,270 --> 01:30:19,840
in theory of computation you can think

2762
01:30:22,709 --> 01:30:21,280
about lambda calculus you can think

2763
01:30:23,910 --> 01:30:22,719
about combinators you can think about

2764
01:30:26,149 --> 01:30:23,920
register machines

2765
01:30:27,990 --> 01:30:26,159
or you can think about turing machines

2766
01:30:29,990 --> 01:30:28,000
turing machines are the

2767
01:30:32,790 --> 01:30:30,000
you know at least in the early such

2768
01:30:34,310 --> 01:30:32,800
systems where the most human relatable

2769
01:30:36,790 --> 01:30:34,320
you know way of thinking about

2770
01:30:39,030 --> 01:30:36,800
computation and i think that there are

2771
01:30:41,830 --> 01:30:39,040
different formulations of our models

2772
01:30:42,950 --> 01:30:41,840
that uh some of them we can see now some

2773
01:30:43,830 --> 01:30:42,960
of them will probably emerge in the

2774
01:30:46,149 --> 01:30:43,840
future

2775
01:30:48,790 --> 01:30:46,159
that look different with respect to that

2776
01:30:50,950 --> 01:30:48,800
now there's a more extreme possibility

2777
01:30:51,990 --> 01:30:50,960
which i don't know if it's the case and

2778
01:30:54,149 --> 01:30:52,000
i'm trying to not

2779
01:30:55,910 --> 01:30:54,159
repeat mistakes of history so to speak

2780
01:30:57,030 --> 01:30:55,920
here you know when einstein invented

2781
01:30:59,830 --> 01:30:57,040
general artillery

2782
01:31:00,950 --> 01:30:59,840
one of the things that uh came up was

2783
01:31:03,270 --> 01:31:00,960
the theory as he

2784
01:31:04,870 --> 01:31:03,280
first set it up implied that the

2785
01:31:06,629 --> 01:31:04,880
universe expands

2786
01:31:08,229 --> 01:31:06,639
and he was like that can't possibly be

2787
01:31:09,910 --> 01:31:08,239
right you know

2788
01:31:11,910 --> 01:31:09,920
surely that isn't right so let me add

2789
01:31:13,590 --> 01:31:11,920
this extra cosmological term

2790
01:31:15,750 --> 01:31:13,600
to uh to prevent the cosmological

2791
01:31:18,550 --> 01:31:15,760
constant and so on to prevent

2792
01:31:18,790 --> 01:31:18,560
the universe from expanding well turned

2793
01:31:21,110 --> 01:31:18,800
out

2794
01:31:23,750 --> 01:31:21,120
it was true that the universe expanded

2795
01:31:26,229 --> 01:31:23,760
and he shouldn't worry too much about it

2796
01:31:27,590 --> 01:31:26,239
well in our models the most obvious

2797
01:31:30,709 --> 01:31:27,600
possibility

2798
01:31:33,270 --> 01:31:30,719
is that this uh hypograph

2799
01:31:35,110 --> 01:31:33,280
is progressively subdividing itself it's

2800
01:31:38,229 --> 01:31:35,120
getting bigger and bigger and bigger

2801
01:31:41,189 --> 01:31:38,239
um and the the distance

2802
01:31:42,870 --> 01:31:41,199
one meter is corresponding to more and

2803
01:31:44,629 --> 01:31:42,880
more and more

2804
01:31:45,669 --> 01:31:44,639
sort of separate atoms of space if you

2805
01:31:47,030 --> 01:31:45,679
lined them up and looked at their

2806
01:31:48,790 --> 01:31:47,040
connections and so on it will be a

2807
01:31:50,070 --> 01:31:48,800
larger number of connections that would

2808
01:31:51,990 --> 01:31:50,080
have to be made

2809
01:31:54,310 --> 01:31:52,000
to correspond to a meter of physical

2810
01:31:54,870 --> 01:31:54,320
space so one thing which i have to say

2811
01:31:56,470 --> 01:31:54,880
it does

2812
01:31:58,550 --> 01:31:56,480
look in these models is if it's

2813
01:32:01,110 --> 01:31:58,560
suggesting it's the way it happens

2814
01:32:02,550 --> 01:32:01,120
is that in fact the amount of the number

2815
01:32:04,790 --> 01:32:02,560
of atoms of space is

2816
01:32:05,910 --> 01:32:04,800
rapidly increasing in the history of the

2817
01:32:07,910 --> 01:32:05,920
universe

2818
01:32:09,110 --> 01:32:07,920
and if that's the case one of the most

2819
01:32:12,709 --> 01:32:09,120
bizarre possibilities

2820
01:32:13,910 --> 01:32:12,719
is you say okay you say i've got an

2821
01:32:15,910 --> 01:32:13,920
experiment it's going to test whether

2822
01:32:18,390 --> 01:32:15,920
the universe is discrete

2823
01:32:19,830 --> 01:32:18,400
as i run the experiment the universe is

2824
01:32:21,510 --> 01:32:19,840
subdividing itself

2825
01:32:23,669 --> 01:32:21,520
so if the experiment said i'm going to

2826
01:32:25,990 --> 01:32:23,679
test is the universe discrete at the

2827
01:32:28,070 --> 01:32:26,000
level of 10 to the minus 200 meters by

2828
01:32:30,390 --> 01:32:28,080
the time that experiment has been run

2829
01:32:31,990 --> 01:32:30,400
the universe will have subdivided itself

2830
01:32:35,030 --> 01:32:32,000
to be 210 to

2831
01:32:37,270 --> 01:32:35,040
10 to the minus 220 meters or something

2832
01:32:38,390 --> 01:32:37,280
and so in other words it will always be

2833
01:32:40,070 --> 01:32:38,400
running away from you

2834
01:32:42,470 --> 01:32:40,080
it will always be subdividing itself

2835
01:32:43,910 --> 01:32:42,480
faster than you can painted subdivision

2836
01:32:46,550 --> 01:32:43,920
it's kind of like the ultimate epsilon

2837
01:32:47,669 --> 01:32:46,560
delta proof in in calculus or something

2838
01:32:49,669 --> 01:32:47,679
you're watching this channel because

2839
01:32:51,350 --> 01:32:49,679
you're interested in theoretical physics

2840
01:32:52,870 --> 01:32:51,360
consciousness and the ostensible

2841
01:32:54,229 --> 01:32:52,880
connection between the two what's

2842
01:32:55,030 --> 01:32:54,239
required to follow some of these

2843
01:32:56,790 --> 01:32:55,040
arguments is

2844
01:32:59,030 --> 01:32:56,800
facility with mathematics as well as

2845
01:32:59,669 --> 01:32:59,040
discernment of the underlying physical

2846
01:33:01,110 --> 01:32:59,679
laws and

2847
01:33:03,030 --> 01:33:01,120
you may think that this is beyond you

2848
01:33:05,189 --> 01:33:03,040
but that's false brilliance provides

2849
01:33:06,470 --> 01:33:05,199
pelucid explanations of abstruse

2850
01:33:08,870 --> 01:33:06,480
phenomenon such as

2851
01:33:10,550 --> 01:33:08,880
quantum computing general relativity and

2852
01:33:13,030 --> 01:33:10,560
even group theory when you hear that the

2853
01:33:13,990 --> 01:33:13,040
standard model is based on u1 cross su 2

2854
01:33:15,990 --> 01:33:14,000
cross su 3

2855
01:33:17,830 --> 01:33:16,000
that's group theory for example now this

2856
01:33:19,990 --> 01:33:17,840
isn't just for neophytes either

2857
01:33:21,350 --> 01:33:20,000
for example i have a degree in math and

2858
01:33:23,110 --> 01:33:21,360
physics and i still found

2859
01:33:25,750 --> 01:33:23,120
some of the intuitions given in these

2860
01:33:27,270 --> 01:33:25,760
lessons to vastly aid my penetration

2861
01:33:29,270 --> 01:33:27,280
into these subjects for example

2862
01:33:30,950 --> 01:33:29,280
electricity and magnetism sign up today

2863
01:33:34,070 --> 01:33:30,960
at brilliant.org

2864
01:33:34,790 --> 01:33:34,080
tow that is t-o-e for free you'll also

2865
01:33:36,950 --> 01:33:34,800
get 20

2866
01:33:38,790 --> 01:33:36,960
off the annual premium subscription try

2867
01:33:41,270 --> 01:33:38,800
four of the lessons at least don't

2868
01:33:43,189 --> 01:33:41,280
stop before four and i think you'll be

2869
01:33:45,270 --> 01:33:43,199
greatly surprised at the ease at which

2870
01:33:46,390 --> 01:33:45,280
you comprehend subjects you previously

2871
01:33:48,629 --> 01:33:46,400
had trouble grocking

2872
01:33:50,790 --> 01:33:48,639
links are in the description is there a

2873
01:33:51,910 --> 01:33:50,800
way to test the discretization of space

2874
01:33:54,310 --> 01:33:51,920
or time

2875
01:33:57,510 --> 01:33:54,320
in the cosmic background radiation

2876
01:34:00,310 --> 01:33:57,520
because of how quickly it inflated

2877
01:34:00,709 --> 01:34:00,320
maybe even that inflation no maybe i

2878
01:34:02,629 --> 01:34:00,719
mean

2879
01:34:05,270 --> 01:34:02,639
we've been looking at this what what if

2880
01:34:09,830 --> 01:34:05,280
the universe starts infinite dimensional

2881
01:34:11,270 --> 01:34:09,840
um what um uh and gradually cools down

2882
01:34:13,030 --> 01:34:11,280
to being three-dimensional

2883
01:34:14,550 --> 01:34:13,040
we expect there to be some dimension

2884
01:34:16,070 --> 01:34:14,560
fluctuations left over

2885
01:34:18,070 --> 01:34:16,080
they may have survived for hundreds of

2886
01:34:19,669 --> 01:34:18,080
thousands of years they would lead to

2887
01:34:20,709 --> 01:34:19,679
perturbations in the cosmic microwave

2888
01:34:23,990 --> 01:34:20,719
background

2889
01:34:25,669 --> 01:34:24,000
um and uh that we don't yet know what

2890
01:34:27,189 --> 01:34:25,679
those perturbations are like we're just

2891
01:34:28,310 --> 01:34:27,199
trying to work out what the analog of

2892
01:34:29,669 --> 01:34:28,320
the standard

2893
01:34:31,350 --> 01:34:29,679
you know robertson walker friedman

2894
01:34:34,870 --> 01:34:31,360
robertson walker metric

2895
01:34:36,390 --> 01:34:34,880
uh for a kind of a a um a homogeneous

2896
01:34:37,669 --> 01:34:36,400
universe what that's like when the

2897
01:34:39,350 --> 01:34:37,679
dimension changes we

2898
01:34:40,709 --> 01:34:39,360
we don't know we did some live streams

2899
01:34:41,510 --> 01:34:40,719
recently actually exploring that

2900
01:34:43,270 --> 01:34:41,520
question

2901
01:34:44,950 --> 01:34:43,280
we don't know the answer yet it changed

2902
01:34:46,629 --> 01:34:44,960
from infinite to a finite so

2903
01:34:48,950 --> 01:34:46,639
infinity is real or you're saying

2904
01:34:49,590 --> 01:34:48,960
infinite as a standard for an extremely

2905
01:34:51,189 --> 01:34:49,600
large

2906
01:34:53,189 --> 01:34:51,199
dimensional system more like extremely

2907
01:34:55,669 --> 01:34:53,199
large because you can't even

2908
01:34:56,390 --> 01:34:55,679
make a sense of a if if you have a graph

2909
01:34:58,870 --> 01:34:56,400
that's sort of

2910
01:35:00,390 --> 01:34:58,880
completely connected there's no sense of

2911
01:35:01,750 --> 01:35:00,400
dimension because dimension requires

2912
01:35:03,350 --> 01:35:01,760
that you take limits

2913
01:35:04,790 --> 01:35:03,360
of larger and larger distances in the

2914
01:35:06,310 --> 01:35:04,800
graph but there is no

2915
01:35:08,629 --> 01:35:06,320
if everything's connected everything is

2916
01:35:10,470 --> 01:35:08,639
distance one away so there's no way to

2917
01:35:11,990 --> 01:35:10,480
get far away and talk about what the

2918
01:35:13,510 --> 01:35:12,000
large scale limit of that is

2919
01:35:15,270 --> 01:35:13,520
how do you get the dimension of time in

2920
01:35:17,109 --> 01:35:15,280
your model because i can understand

2921
01:35:17,750 --> 01:35:17,119
space and there's a hos door for a top

2922
01:35:21,590 --> 01:35:17,760
of lodge

2923
01:35:23,590 --> 01:35:21,600
but with growing up a ball of radius

2924
01:35:27,430 --> 01:35:23,600
but how do you grow a ball of radius

2925
01:35:30,790 --> 01:35:27,440
time it's the dimension of time defined

2926
01:35:33,350 --> 01:35:30,800
so time is is

2927
01:35:35,350 --> 01:35:33,360
multi you know time is going in this

2928
01:35:38,629 --> 01:35:35,360
multi-way graph so time

2929
01:35:41,350 --> 01:35:38,639
to begin with has in a sense

2930
01:35:42,070 --> 01:35:41,360
it is an assumption that is a very

2931
01:35:43,669 --> 01:35:42,080
consciousness

2932
01:35:45,430 --> 01:35:43,679
related assumption that time is one

2933
01:35:46,950 --> 01:35:45,440
dimensional that is

2934
01:35:48,870 --> 01:35:46,960
that there is a single thread of

2935
01:35:51,510 --> 01:35:48,880
experience is basically

2936
01:35:53,350 --> 01:35:51,520
saying we're going to conflate time

2937
01:35:55,430 --> 01:35:53,360
until it is one dimensional

2938
01:35:57,270 --> 01:35:55,440
that is our view of the universe as soon

2939
01:35:58,870 --> 01:35:57,280
as we put in these foliations

2940
01:36:00,629 --> 01:35:58,880
we are essentially assuming that time is

2941
01:36:03,270 --> 01:36:00,639
one dimensional it doesn't need to be

2942
01:36:05,109 --> 01:36:03,280
time can be time can be off with you

2943
01:36:07,030 --> 01:36:05,119
know there can be many different

2944
01:36:08,950 --> 01:36:07,040
uh paths many different histories of the

2945
01:36:11,750 --> 01:36:08,960
universe that never knit together

2946
01:36:13,109 --> 01:36:11,760
that the the the fact that those those

2947
01:36:15,189 --> 01:36:13,119
things are knitted together

2948
01:36:16,790 --> 01:36:15,199
is an assumption that's closely related

2949
01:36:19,350 --> 01:36:16,800
to kind of the generalized view of

2950
01:36:20,550 --> 01:36:19,360
consciousness

2951
01:36:22,390 --> 01:36:20,560
i don't know what you call this meta

2952
01:36:24,470 --> 01:36:22,400
mathematical space if it's proof space

2953
01:36:26,229 --> 01:36:24,480
or what but as i was imagining it

2954
01:36:28,229 --> 01:36:26,239
nodes on a graph and there's some

2955
01:36:29,910 --> 01:36:28,239
diagrammatic rewriting rules

2956
01:36:31,669 --> 01:36:29,920
does that mean that you can make

2957
01:36:35,030 --> 01:36:31,679
rigorous the notion of what

2958
01:36:38,149 --> 01:36:35,040
beauty is you know erdos has the book

2959
01:36:40,070 --> 01:36:38,159
by saying that it's a geodesic in proof

2960
01:36:40,950 --> 01:36:40,080
space or meta-mathematical space well i

2961
01:36:41,990 --> 01:36:40,960
don't know that's a good question

2962
01:36:44,629 --> 01:36:42,000
whether whether

2963
01:36:45,430 --> 01:36:44,639
whether urdosh proofs from the book is

2964
01:36:48,470 --> 01:36:45,440
going to be

2965
01:36:50,950 --> 01:36:48,480
geodesic paths in um

2966
01:36:52,149 --> 01:36:50,960
uh in proofs in theorem space so to

2967
01:36:54,950 --> 01:36:52,159
speak

2968
01:36:56,070 --> 01:36:54,960
my guess is not my guess is most of the

2969
01:36:57,910 --> 01:36:56,080
shortest proofs

2970
01:37:00,390 --> 01:36:57,920
will be absolutely incomprehensible to

2971
01:37:02,070 --> 01:37:00,400
us humans so they may be i mean i think

2972
01:37:04,070 --> 01:37:02,080
urdosh's view of the book

2973
01:37:06,390 --> 01:37:04,080
was kind of a god-given book the proofs

2974
01:37:08,229 --> 01:37:06,400
may be well understandable to god but

2975
01:37:08,709 --> 01:37:08,239
sorry the humans don't get to understand

2976
01:37:11,030 --> 01:37:08,719
them

2977
01:37:12,709 --> 01:37:11,040
i mean in other words it it the shortest

2978
01:37:13,750 --> 01:37:12,719
it's like the shortest algorithm for

2979
01:37:15,830 --> 01:37:13,760
something

2980
01:37:17,669 --> 01:37:15,840
is usually not a human comprehensible

2981
01:37:19,990 --> 01:37:17,679
algorithm

2982
01:37:21,350 --> 01:37:20,000
so it's a trade-off of and this is very

2983
01:37:23,669 --> 01:37:21,360
related to what

2984
01:37:24,470 --> 01:37:23,679
what a mathematical consciousness really

2985
01:37:26,790 --> 01:37:24,480
is

2986
01:37:28,149 --> 01:37:26,800
because to say it's it's following

2987
01:37:30,229 --> 01:37:28,159
geodesics

2988
01:37:31,669 --> 01:37:30,239
is probably to say it's an optimized

2989
01:37:34,070 --> 01:37:31,679
mathematician but not a

2990
01:37:36,629 --> 01:37:34,080
not something closely modeled by a human

2991
01:37:38,229 --> 01:37:36,639
mathematician

2992
01:37:40,070 --> 01:37:38,239
one time i heard you speculate and

2993
01:37:41,990 --> 01:37:40,080
perhaps it's not perhaps it's worked out

2994
01:37:44,149 --> 01:37:42,000
even farther than what i saw that

2995
01:37:45,510 --> 01:37:44,159
particles are black holes in branchial

2996
01:37:48,470 --> 01:37:45,520
space

2997
01:37:49,350 --> 01:37:48,480
uh maybe we'll see not not properly

2998
01:37:52,470 --> 01:37:49,360
worked out yet

2999
01:37:55,990 --> 01:37:52,480
i mean i think that black holes yeah

3000
01:37:57,830 --> 01:37:56,000
i mean that that's a um the relationship

3001
01:38:00,070 --> 01:37:57,840
between particles and black holes

3002
01:38:01,669 --> 01:38:00,080
is an interesting one i'm i'm you know

3003
01:38:03,270 --> 01:38:01,679
for for anybody younger

3004
01:38:06,790 --> 01:38:03,280
who's who's paying attention to this i

3005
01:38:08,390 --> 01:38:06,800
have to tell a story i was probably 1974

3006
01:38:11,350 --> 01:38:08,400
1975 i was probably

3007
01:38:13,109 --> 01:38:11,360
14 15 years old i go to some talk by

3008
01:38:15,030 --> 01:38:13,119
some fancy physicist

3009
01:38:16,709 --> 01:38:15,040
and um they're talking about black holes

3010
01:38:18,629 --> 01:38:16,719
and whatever else so i go up to this

3011
01:38:22,310 --> 01:38:18,639
person afterwards and i say

3012
01:38:24,390 --> 01:38:22,320
you know uh you know could particles be

3013
01:38:26,870 --> 01:38:24,400
small black holes

3014
01:38:28,149 --> 01:38:26,880
right the person says oh no no you don't

3015
01:38:30,229 --> 01:38:28,159
understand anything

3016
01:38:31,750 --> 01:38:30,239
it's you know they're all completely

3017
01:38:34,709 --> 01:38:31,760
different kinds of things

3018
01:38:36,629 --> 01:38:34,719
so okay now we're another 45 years later

3019
01:38:38,790 --> 01:38:36,639
and turns out it might actually be true

3020
01:38:39,990 --> 01:38:38,800
so don't listen to what the the main

3021
01:38:41,430 --> 01:38:40,000
moral of that is

3022
01:38:44,229 --> 01:38:41,440
you know if you go to the talks by the

3023
01:38:46,950 --> 01:38:44,239
fancy physicists and um and

3024
01:38:48,550 --> 01:38:46,960
uh i mean i i wasn't you know at the

3025
01:38:51,750 --> 01:38:48,560
time it just seemed like

3026
01:38:53,430 --> 01:38:51,760
the feature of black holes these no hair

3027
01:38:54,470 --> 01:38:53,440
theorems for black holes the fact that

3028
01:38:56,390 --> 01:38:54,480
black holes

3029
01:38:58,229 --> 01:38:56,400
have this feature that there are only

3030
01:38:59,910 --> 01:38:58,239
certain aspects of black holes that seem

3031
01:39:02,229 --> 01:38:59,920
to be visible from the outside

3032
01:39:03,430 --> 01:39:02,239
just seem to me as the 14 year old me or

3033
01:39:05,990 --> 01:39:03,440
something

3034
01:39:06,790 --> 01:39:06,000
as being you know that seems awfully

3035
01:39:08,470 --> 01:39:06,800
like

3036
01:39:11,109 --> 01:39:08,480
what you find with particles that there

3037
01:39:13,350 --> 01:39:11,119
are limited number of kinds of particles

3038
01:39:15,189 --> 01:39:13,360
that uh just as there are limited number

3039
01:39:18,229 --> 01:39:15,199
of kinds of black holes

3040
01:39:20,310 --> 01:39:18,239
and um turns out as i say

3041
01:39:21,990 --> 01:39:20,320
the main the main takeaway from that is

3042
01:39:23,830 --> 01:39:22,000
um uh

3043
01:39:25,030 --> 01:39:23,840
you know so i'm applying that to myself

3044
01:39:27,350 --> 01:39:25,040
so just as i

3045
01:39:29,750 --> 01:39:27,360
may say to somebody about some idea you

3046
01:39:31,990 --> 01:39:29,760
know that couldn't possibly be that way

3047
01:39:33,990 --> 01:39:32,000
um you know wait another few decades and

3048
01:39:38,229 --> 01:39:34,000
maybe it'll turn out to be right

3049
01:39:41,109 --> 01:39:38,239
but um what are snake states

3050
01:39:43,030 --> 01:39:41,119
oh this is a complicated story that and

3051
01:39:45,189 --> 01:39:43,040
i'm running out of time so we probably

3052
01:39:47,109 --> 01:39:45,199
let let's not let's not dive down that

3053
01:39:48,950 --> 01:39:47,119
that term i mean

3054
01:39:51,510 --> 01:39:48,960
even if even if that led to some

3055
01:39:52,629 --> 01:39:51,520
wonderful puns about snakes on a plane

3056
01:39:53,990 --> 01:39:52,639
and things like this

3057
01:39:56,390 --> 01:39:54,000
do you have any fineman stories that you

3058
01:39:57,189 --> 01:39:56,400
haven't told before that i haven't told

3059
01:40:00,709 --> 01:39:57,199
before

3060
01:40:01,590 --> 01:40:00,719
um or how about this you mentioned one

3061
01:40:03,910 --> 01:40:01,600
time

3062
01:40:05,430 --> 01:40:03,920
perhaps more that feynman is

3063
01:40:06,790 --> 01:40:05,440
misapprehended as someone who has an

3064
01:40:08,870 --> 01:40:06,800
extreme understanding he does

3065
01:40:10,390 --> 01:40:08,880
but he was great at calculation and that

3066
01:40:11,189 --> 01:40:10,400
calculation allowed him to understand

3067
01:40:12,950 --> 01:40:11,199
and perceive

3068
01:40:14,790 --> 01:40:12,960
apprehend what other misunderstandings

3069
01:40:16,229 --> 01:40:14,800
or false impressions do people have

3070
01:40:18,149 --> 01:40:16,239
about feynman that you're able to see

3071
01:40:21,030 --> 01:40:18,159
from the inside

3072
01:40:23,109 --> 01:40:21,040
oh the one that always drove him crazy

3073
01:40:24,470 --> 01:40:23,119
was um and you know you mentioned at the

3074
01:40:27,750 --> 01:40:24,480
beginning of uh

3075
01:40:30,790 --> 01:40:27,760
of this you know people sort of uh

3076
01:40:32,950 --> 01:40:30,800
uh ad hominem attacks that uh

3077
01:40:34,790 --> 01:40:32,960
that i may get which i'm blissfully

3078
01:40:38,310 --> 01:40:34,800
unaware of for the most part but but

3079
01:40:41,669 --> 01:40:38,320
um the um you know

3080
01:40:43,430 --> 01:40:41,679
uh uh people one of the things that

3081
01:40:46,070 --> 01:40:43,440
drove firemen crazy

3082
01:40:46,550 --> 01:40:46,080
was that people thought of him as you

3083
01:40:50,870 --> 01:40:46,560
know

3084
01:40:52,070 --> 01:40:50,880
would listen to anything et cetera et

3085
01:40:55,590 --> 01:40:52,080
cetera et cetera

3086
01:40:58,310 --> 01:40:55,600
but in fact like all of us you know

3087
01:40:59,590 --> 01:40:58,320
he got impatient he valued his time etc

3088
01:41:00,950 --> 01:40:59,600
etc etc

3089
01:41:03,109 --> 01:41:00,960
and so when people would kind of get

3090
01:41:05,669 --> 01:41:03,119
close to him and he would be like

3091
01:41:06,310 --> 01:41:05,679
kind of snarky with them and so on they

3092
01:41:08,629 --> 01:41:06,320
would say

3093
01:41:10,310 --> 01:41:08,639
oh my gosh you know you're supposed to

3094
01:41:12,790 --> 01:41:10,320
be this this wonderfully

3095
01:41:13,830 --> 01:41:12,800
nice you know positive person and

3096
01:41:15,430 --> 01:41:13,840
actually

3097
01:41:17,270 --> 01:41:15,440
you're kind of snarky that's terrible

3098
01:41:19,189 --> 01:41:17,280
that's horrible i'm i'm

3099
01:41:20,950 --> 01:41:19,199
i'm you know that's that's very

3100
01:41:22,709 --> 01:41:20,960
horrifying so so actually one of the

3101
01:41:26,070 --> 01:41:22,719
things he always used to tell me is

3102
01:41:29,270 --> 01:41:26,080
don't don't appear to be too nice

3103
01:41:29,830 --> 01:41:29,280
because it's actually a worse life than

3104
01:41:32,149 --> 01:41:29,840
um

3105
01:41:32,870 --> 01:41:32,159
uh uh than the other so to speak i'm not

3106
01:41:35,350 --> 01:41:32,880
sure that i've

3107
01:41:36,550 --> 01:41:35,360
intentionally taken that to heart but um

3108
01:41:39,830 --> 01:41:36,560
it was one of those things

3109
01:41:43,590 --> 01:41:39,840
but i think here's the thing that um

3110
01:41:46,550 --> 01:41:43,600
uh i talked a lot to dick feynman about

3111
01:41:47,350 --> 01:41:46,560
quantum mechanics and he would always

3112
01:41:48,629 --> 01:41:47,360
say

3113
01:41:49,910 --> 01:41:48,639
you know we don't really understand

3114
01:41:51,270 --> 01:41:49,920
quantum mechanics you know we can

3115
01:41:52,550 --> 01:41:51,280
calculate this and that

3116
01:41:53,669 --> 01:41:52,560
we don't really understand it we don't

3117
01:41:54,709 --> 01:41:53,679
have an intuitive understanding of

3118
01:41:56,149 --> 01:41:54,719
what's going on

3119
01:41:57,350 --> 01:41:56,159
it's a shame he's not still around

3120
01:41:58,709 --> 01:41:57,360
because i would really have had a good

3121
01:42:00,870 --> 01:41:58,719
time telling him about the stuff we

3122
01:42:02,070 --> 01:42:00,880
figured out now and it's you know one of

3123
01:42:03,990 --> 01:42:02,080
the things i remember

3124
01:42:05,990 --> 01:42:04,000
just these endless conversations about

3125
01:42:06,229 --> 01:42:06,000
why does thermodynamics theta minus beta

3126
01:42:14,070 --> 01:42:06,239
h

3127
01:42:17,189 --> 01:42:14,080
answer

3128
01:42:18,629 --> 01:42:17,199
and it's it's pretty neat and it's um i

3129
01:42:22,950 --> 01:42:18,639
think that um

3130
01:42:26,310 --> 01:42:24,709
i mean another thing that we don't yet

3131
01:42:27,430 --> 01:42:26,320
know they'll be interesting to see how

3132
01:42:29,430 --> 01:42:27,440
it plays out

3133
01:42:30,950 --> 01:42:29,440
you know one of dick feynman's most

3134
01:42:32,950 --> 01:42:30,960
famous probably single most famous

3135
01:42:35,669 --> 01:42:32,960
invention was fyman diagrams

3136
01:42:37,109 --> 01:42:35,679
this way of calculating uh things in

3137
01:42:39,590 --> 01:42:37,119
quantum field theory

3138
01:42:41,189 --> 01:42:39,600
um and one of the features of feynman

3139
01:42:42,550 --> 01:42:41,199
diagrams is

3140
01:42:45,510 --> 01:42:42,560
the simple ones are pretty easy to

3141
01:42:47,189 --> 01:42:45,520
compute but there's this whole series of

3142
01:42:48,070 --> 01:42:47,199
fimin diagrams for any particular thing

3143
01:42:48,870 --> 01:42:48,080
and they get more and more and more

3144
01:42:50,390 --> 01:42:48,880
complicated

3145
01:42:52,390 --> 01:42:50,400
and they get unbelievably more difficult

3146
01:42:53,590 --> 01:42:52,400
to compute so for example right now

3147
01:42:55,510 --> 01:42:53,600
there's a big sort of flap

3148
01:42:57,350 --> 01:42:55,520
because the anomalous magnetic moment of

3149
01:42:58,229 --> 01:42:57,360
the muon which is computed using feynman

3150
01:42:59,750 --> 01:42:58,239
diagrams

3151
01:43:01,510 --> 01:42:59,760
there's a disagreement apparently

3152
01:43:04,229 --> 01:43:01,520
between the experiment and the theory

3153
01:43:05,350 --> 01:43:04,239
that sort of why is that the case well

3154
01:43:07,189 --> 01:43:05,360
you know it could be

3155
01:43:08,790 --> 01:43:07,199
that one of the things that happens is

3156
01:43:11,030 --> 01:43:08,800
these series of diagrams

3157
01:43:12,709 --> 01:43:11,040
we don't actually know that the ones

3158
01:43:14,950 --> 01:43:12,719
that we can't compute yet

3159
01:43:16,390 --> 01:43:14,960
are really as small as we think they are

3160
01:43:18,070 --> 01:43:16,400
and anyway one of the things that i

3161
01:43:20,550 --> 01:43:18,080
think may come out

3162
01:43:22,070 --> 01:43:20,560
is we may have an actual method for

3163
01:43:22,629 --> 01:43:22,080
doing computations in quantum field

3164
01:43:25,109 --> 01:43:22,639
theory

3165
01:43:26,709 --> 01:43:25,119
that avoids feynman diagrams and and

3166
01:43:29,030 --> 01:43:26,719
feynman always thought

3167
01:43:30,149 --> 01:43:29,040
that he thought said firemen diagrams

3168
01:43:33,590 --> 01:43:30,159
are a crazy idea

3169
01:43:35,750 --> 01:43:33,600
he would always say and um you know i i

3170
01:43:37,510 --> 01:43:35,760
you know i can't believe people think

3171
01:43:39,270 --> 01:43:37,520
you know that there's got to be a better

3172
01:43:40,390 --> 01:43:39,280
way to do this this is a crazy way to do

3173
01:43:42,149 --> 01:43:40,400
it there's got to be a better way to do

3174
01:43:44,149 --> 01:43:42,159
it maybe we'll have such a way

3175
01:43:45,750 --> 01:43:44,159
i'm not sure there's there's also hints

3176
01:43:49,669 --> 01:43:45,760
of of better ways that

3177
01:43:52,310 --> 01:43:49,679
involve the um uh the whole ads cft

3178
01:43:53,350 --> 01:43:52,320
uh business which is pretty closely

3179
01:43:54,870 --> 01:43:53,360
related i think

3180
01:43:56,629 --> 01:43:54,880
to correspondence between physical and

3181
01:43:58,470 --> 01:43:56,639
branchial space in our models so

3182
01:44:00,310 --> 01:43:58,480
it may end up being the same idea in the

3183
01:44:01,830 --> 01:44:00,320
end is there some relationship between

3184
01:44:03,430 --> 01:44:01,840
the holographic principle and

3185
01:44:05,030 --> 01:44:03,440
particles being associated with black

3186
01:44:07,750 --> 01:44:05,040
holes in branchial space

3187
01:44:08,390 --> 01:44:07,760
ads cft correspondence that's probably a

3188
01:44:09,510 --> 01:44:08,400
large

3189
01:44:11,750 --> 01:44:09,520
question you don't have time to answer

3190
01:44:12,550 --> 01:44:11,760
now we don't know yet i mean it looks

3191
01:44:15,189 --> 01:44:12,560
like

3192
01:44:15,910 --> 01:44:15,199
the the holographic principle is a story

3193
01:44:18,470 --> 01:44:15,920
of

3194
01:44:19,510 --> 01:44:18,480
the multi-way causal graph being able to

3195
01:44:22,149 --> 01:44:19,520
be projected

3196
01:44:23,590 --> 01:44:22,159
both in a spatial direction and in a

3197
01:44:25,669 --> 01:44:23,600
branchial direction

3198
01:44:26,870 --> 01:44:25,679
and that it's basically the same graph

3199
01:44:28,550 --> 01:44:26,880
but you're taking two different

3200
01:44:30,550 --> 01:44:28,560
projections of that graph

3201
01:44:32,310 --> 01:44:30,560
and the fact that it's the same graph is

3202
01:44:33,669 --> 01:44:32,320
why there's a holographic principle

3203
01:44:36,070 --> 01:44:33,679
that relates those two different

3204
01:44:37,270 --> 01:44:36,080
projections that's that's probably how

3205
01:44:40,149 --> 01:44:37,280
it's going to work out

3206
01:44:40,390 --> 01:44:40,159
that seems to be how it will work out um

3207
01:44:46,830 --> 01:44:40,400
and

3208
01:44:47,990 --> 01:44:46,840
the um but i'm you you're now having me

3209
01:44:51,350 --> 01:44:48,000
really

3210
01:44:55,030 --> 01:44:51,360
troll my memory for for um

3211
01:44:57,510 --> 01:44:55,040
uh i'm trying to think about

3212
01:44:58,950 --> 01:44:57,520
some dick feynman stories that are

3213
01:45:00,709 --> 01:44:58,960
related to um

3214
01:45:02,070 --> 01:45:00,719
i mean i'm thinking about things that we

3215
01:45:03,830 --> 01:45:02,080
now know

3216
01:45:05,270 --> 01:45:03,840
so to speak that were things that i

3217
01:45:09,189 --> 01:45:05,280
talked to him about

3218
01:45:13,030 --> 01:45:09,199
um and uh um

3219
01:45:16,950 --> 01:45:13,040
yeah that he would dismiss

3220
01:45:17,830 --> 01:45:16,960
um no i mean he always believed there

3221
01:45:19,430 --> 01:45:17,840
was something

3222
01:45:21,030 --> 01:45:19,440
funky about quantum mechanics that there

3223
01:45:22,149 --> 01:45:21,040
was something more to understand that it

3224
01:45:24,629 --> 01:45:22,159
really wasn't

3225
01:45:25,430 --> 01:45:24,639
that what had been done to that time

3226
01:45:29,189 --> 01:45:25,440
which is now

3227
01:45:29,669 --> 01:45:29,199
early 1980s um was just a calculational

3228
01:45:32,310 --> 01:45:29,679
method

3229
01:45:33,189 --> 01:45:32,320
wasn't a a real understanding so to

3230
01:45:35,189 --> 01:45:33,199
speak

3231
01:45:36,629 --> 01:45:35,199
i would say that um yeah okay there's

3232
01:45:36,870 --> 01:45:36,639
another thing i remember i talked to him

3233
01:45:40,070 --> 01:45:36,880
at

3234
01:45:43,430 --> 01:45:40,080
thermodynamics

3235
01:45:46,709 --> 01:45:43,440
which i finally understood in the 1990s

3236
01:45:48,310 --> 01:45:46,719
and uh um i remember we had a huge

3237
01:45:51,990 --> 01:45:48,320
argument at one point

3238
01:45:54,070 --> 01:45:52,000
where he was claiming that the fact that

3239
01:45:54,870 --> 01:45:54,080
the universe is as orderly as it is

3240
01:45:57,430 --> 01:45:54,880
today

3241
01:45:57,990 --> 01:45:57,440
is a fluctuation which i was just like

3242
01:46:01,030 --> 01:45:58,000
that's a

3243
01:46:02,310 --> 01:46:01,040
stupid thing to say our whole universe

3244
01:46:04,390 --> 01:46:02,320
if you say our whole universe in its

3245
01:46:05,910 --> 01:46:04,400
current stages of fluctuation that's not

3246
01:46:07,750 --> 01:46:05,920
a useful scientific theory

3247
01:46:10,310 --> 01:46:07,760
because you're saying with respect to

3248
01:46:11,109 --> 01:46:10,320
our theory everything about what exists

3249
01:46:13,189 --> 01:46:11,119
today

3250
01:46:14,629 --> 01:46:13,199
is an exception and then you don't have

3251
01:46:16,709 --> 01:46:14,639
a theory of what

3252
01:46:18,310 --> 01:46:16,719
you know of what exists today but we i

3253
01:46:18,870 --> 01:46:18,320
remember we had a huge argument about

3254
01:46:22,470 --> 01:46:18,880
this

3255
01:46:24,390 --> 01:46:22,480
have to i

3256
01:46:25,910 --> 01:46:24,400
i had to agree that there was a bunch

3257
01:46:28,870 --> 01:46:25,920
that i didn't understand about

3258
01:46:29,270 --> 01:46:28,880
thermodynamics and nor did he and i

3259
01:46:31,030 --> 01:46:29,280
think

3260
01:46:32,390 --> 01:46:31,040
finally we've understood how that works

3261
01:46:33,510 --> 01:46:32,400
and it's a story of computational

3262
01:46:35,189 --> 01:46:33,520
irreducibility

3263
01:46:37,030 --> 01:46:35,199
and i should have been able to tell that

3264
01:46:39,430 --> 01:46:37,040
story actually even at that time

3265
01:46:40,310 --> 01:46:39,440
i just didn't wasn't um wasn't smart

3266
01:46:42,310 --> 01:46:40,320
enough to see that

3267
01:46:45,270 --> 01:46:42,320
um that connection for another probably

3268
01:46:48,550 --> 01:46:45,280
ten years after that

3269
01:46:50,310 --> 01:46:48,560
okay last fluff question has to do with

3270
01:46:51,750 --> 01:46:50,320
cryptocurrencies and what you see is the

3271
01:46:53,430 --> 01:46:51,760
future of cryptocurrencies

3272
01:46:59,350 --> 01:46:53,440
let me read it specifically because it

3273
01:47:03,189 --> 01:47:00,870
what is the future of cryptocurrencies

3274
01:47:05,270 --> 01:47:03,199
this is from amjad

3275
01:47:07,109 --> 01:47:05,280
many ceos are buying crypto as a store

3276
01:47:10,310 --> 01:47:07,119
of value your thoughts on it who is

3277
01:47:12,149 --> 01:47:10,320
satoshi nakamoto your views on bitcoin

3278
01:47:14,550 --> 01:47:12,159
and proof of work algorithms versus

3279
01:47:15,990 --> 01:47:14,560
ethereum and proof of stake

3280
01:47:17,270 --> 01:47:16,000
quite a few questions when there's a

3281
01:47:19,189 --> 01:47:17,280
long story because we've been quite

3282
01:47:21,270 --> 01:47:19,199
involved in the whole crypto world

3283
01:47:23,430 --> 01:47:21,280
um for a variety of different reasons

3284
01:47:25,990 --> 01:47:23,440
but i'll tell you the thing that is most

3285
01:47:28,870 --> 01:47:26,000
ironic to me about the crypto world

3286
01:47:30,390 --> 01:47:28,880
which is back in the 1980s you know i

3287
01:47:32,149 --> 01:47:30,400
had this idea about computational

3288
01:47:33,669 --> 01:47:32,159
irreducibility the idea that you might

3289
01:47:34,709 --> 01:47:33,679
need to do an irreducible amount of

3290
01:47:38,870 --> 01:47:34,719
computation

3291
01:47:40,629 --> 01:47:38,880
to work certain things out i

3292
01:47:42,149 --> 01:47:40,639
i have some considerable reason to

3293
01:47:45,590 --> 01:47:42,159
believe that

3294
01:47:50,070 --> 01:47:45,600
that um uh

3295
01:47:51,030 --> 01:47:50,080
the um the creator of bitcoin um was

3296
01:47:53,510 --> 01:47:51,040
aware of my

3297
01:47:55,510 --> 01:47:53,520
work about computational irreducibility

3298
01:47:58,470 --> 01:47:55,520
and so the thing that is kind of

3299
01:47:59,030 --> 01:47:58,480
the most ironic most bizarre thing is

3300
01:48:00,550 --> 01:47:59,040
that

3301
01:48:02,550 --> 01:48:00,560
when i thought about computational

3302
01:48:06,709 --> 01:48:02,560
disability in the 1980s

3303
01:48:10,070 --> 01:48:09,189
i imagined it as this limitation on

3304
01:48:12,470 --> 01:48:10,080
science this

3305
01:48:13,750 --> 01:48:12,480
principle about something formal and

3306
01:48:17,430 --> 01:48:13,760
mathematical

3307
01:48:19,750 --> 01:48:17,440
i had no idea that decades later

3308
01:48:21,750 --> 01:48:19,760
there would be you know whatever it is

3309
01:48:23,669 --> 01:48:21,760
some number of percentage points of the

3310
01:48:24,950 --> 01:48:23,679
of the total energy production of the

3311
01:48:27,350 --> 01:48:24,960
world would be

3312
01:48:29,030 --> 01:48:27,360
burnt in computational irreducibility

3313
01:48:31,430 --> 01:48:29,040
it's an utterly bizarre

3314
01:48:32,870 --> 01:48:31,440
it's kind of like you you know if for

3315
01:48:35,990 --> 01:48:32,880
somebody like me i build

3316
01:48:37,990 --> 01:48:36,000
theories i build tools and then the

3317
01:48:39,430 --> 01:48:38,000
world goes on and eventually uses those

3318
01:48:41,669 --> 01:48:39,440
theories and those tools

3319
01:48:42,629 --> 01:48:41,679
for things that are just i mean that one

3320
01:48:44,470 --> 01:48:42,639
was something

3321
01:48:46,390 --> 01:48:44,480
so far out of left field that i couldn't

3322
01:48:48,149 --> 01:48:46,400
see coming that it's remarkable

3323
01:48:50,390 --> 01:48:48,159
that that that idea of proof work is

3324
01:48:52,390 --> 01:48:50,400
completely crazy i mean it's it's a

3325
01:48:54,470 --> 01:48:52,400
it to be fair it's it's a it's very

3326
01:48:55,910 --> 01:48:54,480
amusing and completely crazy

3327
01:48:57,510 --> 01:48:55,920
and you know i have certainly thought

3328
01:48:58,629 --> 01:48:57,520
about is there a way to do something

3329
01:49:01,109 --> 01:48:58,639
like proof of work

3330
01:49:03,270 --> 01:49:01,119
that generates useful computation and i

3331
01:49:05,750 --> 01:49:03,280
have not yet figured out how to do that

3332
01:49:07,109 --> 01:49:05,760
but with respect to cryptocurrency and

3333
01:49:09,830 --> 01:49:07,119
for example the question

3334
01:49:11,590 --> 01:49:09,840
why is there value in cryptocurrency you

3335
01:49:13,109 --> 01:49:11,600
know i had thought well to get value in

3336
01:49:14,470 --> 01:49:13,119
economics you have to actually be making

3337
01:49:16,470 --> 01:49:14,480
something in the real world

3338
01:49:17,990 --> 01:49:16,480
and i thought for a while you know we've

3339
01:49:20,229 --> 01:49:18,000
been a lot involved in computational

3340
01:49:21,589 --> 01:49:20,239
contracts the idea of expressing

3341
01:49:24,149 --> 01:49:21,599
what would otherwise be contracts

3342
01:49:25,669 --> 01:49:24,159
written in legalese in

3343
01:49:27,589 --> 01:49:25,679
in computational language because we

3344
01:49:27,990 --> 01:49:27,599
have kind of the unique computational

3345
01:49:29,990 --> 01:49:28,000
language

3346
01:49:31,910 --> 01:49:30,000
that can talk about the real world and

3347
01:49:33,990 --> 01:49:31,920
that is therefore capable of having

3348
01:49:35,109 --> 01:49:34,000
you know contracts about the real world

3349
01:49:36,709 --> 01:49:35,119
written in it

3350
01:49:39,030 --> 01:49:36,719
so we've done quite a bit of work on

3351
01:49:40,629 --> 01:49:39,040
that and i sort of imagine my belief as

3352
01:49:43,990 --> 01:49:40,639
a few years ago was

3353
01:49:46,629 --> 01:49:44,000
that when computational contracts

3354
01:49:48,070 --> 01:49:46,639
are the dominant form of contracts that

3355
01:49:49,270 --> 01:49:48,080
cryptocurrencies just become a

3356
01:49:52,550 --> 01:49:49,280
convenient

3357
01:49:53,910 --> 01:49:52,560
mechanism for uh for

3358
01:49:56,870 --> 01:49:53,920
sort of servicing computational

3359
01:49:58,709 --> 01:49:56,880
contracts but then

3360
01:50:00,470 --> 01:49:58,719
the question is is there intrinsic value

3361
01:50:02,550 --> 01:50:00,480
in a cryptocurrency

3362
01:50:03,990 --> 01:50:02,560
and so this relates to the question of

3363
01:50:05,830 --> 01:50:04,000
well why is there intrinsic value in

3364
01:50:07,669 --> 01:50:05,840
anything in economics

3365
01:50:10,070 --> 01:50:07,679
and so that relates to what is the

3366
01:50:11,109 --> 01:50:10,080
foundational theory of economics and so

3367
01:50:11,990 --> 01:50:11,119
this is something i've been thinking

3368
01:50:13,910 --> 01:50:12,000
about

3369
01:50:16,149 --> 01:50:13,920
and you know i think that the the

3370
01:50:17,510 --> 01:50:16,159
elementary actions in economics are

3371
01:50:19,510 --> 01:50:17,520
transactions

3372
01:50:21,350 --> 01:50:19,520
and i think that what's happening is

3373
01:50:22,709 --> 01:50:21,360
that this whole giant network of

3374
01:50:23,910 --> 01:50:22,719
transactions

3375
01:50:25,750 --> 01:50:23,920
why does this sound like something

3376
01:50:27,030 --> 01:50:25,760
what's out elsewhere well because i

3377
01:50:28,870 --> 01:50:27,040
think it maybe is

3378
01:50:31,030 --> 01:50:28,880
it's something not unlike the giant

3379
01:50:33,270 --> 01:50:31,040
network of updatings of this

3380
01:50:34,629 --> 01:50:33,280
spatial hypergraph and so on it's all

3381
01:50:35,669 --> 01:50:34,639
these different transactions happening

3382
01:50:39,109 --> 01:50:35,679
in the world

3383
01:50:39,990 --> 01:50:39,119
and the story ends up being that what is

3384
01:50:44,790 --> 01:50:40,000
value

3385
01:50:46,870 --> 01:50:44,800
price is something related to

3386
01:50:48,550 --> 01:50:46,880
okay so so think about it this way i

3387
01:50:49,830 --> 01:50:48,560
i've been using this thing last few

3388
01:50:52,070 --> 01:50:49,840
weeks at least

3389
01:50:53,589 --> 01:50:52,080
you know somebody wants to buy a cookie

3390
01:50:55,750 --> 01:50:53,599
the person they want to buy it from

3391
01:50:59,030 --> 01:50:55,760
eventually wants to rent a movie

3392
01:51:02,629 --> 01:50:59,040
the question is is there in

3393
01:51:03,669 --> 01:51:02,639
a certain world where it's ai bots all

3394
01:51:06,070 --> 01:51:03,679
the way down

3395
01:51:07,589 --> 01:51:06,080
one could imagine that they arranged

3396
01:51:09,189 --> 01:51:07,599
this network of transactions so the

3397
01:51:11,270 --> 01:51:09,199
person who wants to buy the cookie

3398
01:51:12,870 --> 01:51:11,280
eventually is giving value to the person

3399
01:51:13,669 --> 01:51:12,880
who wants to rent the movie they barter

3400
01:51:15,750 --> 01:51:13,679
everything

3401
01:51:16,950 --> 01:51:15,760
so that's what happens no money is

3402
01:51:19,910 --> 01:51:16,960
involved it's just

3403
01:51:22,629 --> 01:51:19,920
bought to bot transactions right so the

3404
01:51:24,709 --> 01:51:22,639
question is what is money what is price

3405
01:51:26,310 --> 01:51:24,719
and i think what it could be thought of

3406
01:51:27,589 --> 01:51:26,320
as i think i i don't know if this will

3407
01:51:30,390 --> 01:51:27,599
really work out

3408
01:51:30,790 --> 01:51:30,400
that it is just like you have all these

3409
01:51:33,350 --> 01:51:30,800
uh

3410
01:51:35,510 --> 01:51:33,360
sort of interactions in space and so on

3411
01:51:36,149 --> 01:51:35,520
and in aggregate you can think about

3412
01:51:37,990 --> 01:51:36,159
them

3413
01:51:39,350 --> 01:51:38,000
as having certain gravitational fields

3414
01:51:40,709 --> 01:51:39,360
certain this that and the other certain

3415
01:51:43,030 --> 01:51:40,719
aggregate properties

3416
01:51:44,070 --> 01:51:43,040
that is a description of all of those

3417
01:51:48,390 --> 01:51:44,080
microscopic

3418
01:51:51,589 --> 01:51:48,400
so i have this slight guess

3419
01:51:54,629 --> 01:51:51,599
that value and price

3420
01:51:55,510 --> 01:51:54,639
are associated with sort of an aggregate

3421
01:51:57,430 --> 01:51:55,520
version

3422
01:51:58,709 --> 01:51:57,440
of all these microscopic processes that

3423
01:52:01,750 --> 01:51:58,719
are going on and

3424
01:52:04,629 --> 01:52:01,760
the most bizarre thing is that what

3425
01:52:07,430 --> 01:52:04,639
leads those things to have a sort of a

3426
01:52:08,790 --> 01:52:07,440
a robust value is computational

3427
01:52:11,669 --> 01:52:08,800
irreducibility

3428
01:52:13,510 --> 01:52:11,679
so the absolutely bizarre possibility is

3429
01:52:15,030 --> 01:52:13,520
that the transactions that go on an

3430
01:52:18,229 --> 01:52:15,040
economic system

3431
01:52:19,910 --> 01:52:18,239
are sort of in aggregate

3432
01:52:22,390 --> 01:52:19,920
they are a whole story of computational

3433
01:52:23,189 --> 01:52:22,400
irreducibility and the reason that they

3434
01:52:26,229 --> 01:52:23,199
build up

3435
01:52:27,350 --> 01:52:26,239
some definite sort of uh sort of solid

3436
01:52:30,149 --> 01:52:27,360
sense of price

3437
01:52:31,510 --> 01:52:30,159
or value is because you sort of can't un

3438
01:52:33,030 --> 01:52:31,520
unravel that computational

3439
01:52:35,030 --> 01:52:33,040
irreducibility

3440
01:52:37,030 --> 01:52:35,040
and so in some sense the computational

3441
01:52:40,149 --> 01:52:37,040
irreducibility is the source

3442
01:52:42,149 --> 01:52:40,159
of robust value in economics and then

3443
01:52:43,510 --> 01:52:42,159
that in a sense the bizarre thing then

3444
01:52:46,310 --> 01:52:43,520
is proof-of-work

3445
01:52:47,109 --> 01:52:46,320
is a is a crazy sort of inner bottle

3446
01:52:49,189 --> 01:52:47,119
version

3447
01:52:51,350 --> 01:52:49,199
of that process so to speak proof of

3448
01:52:52,149 --> 01:52:51,360
work yes the proof of work is is ends up

3449
01:52:55,189 --> 01:52:52,159
being sort of the

3450
01:52:58,310 --> 01:52:55,199
the bottled up version of that that idea

3451
01:53:00,149 --> 01:52:58,320
although it's it's a it's a poor way to

3452
01:53:03,109 --> 01:53:00,159
to think about that and i think that the

3453
01:53:06,070 --> 01:53:03,119
so you know what i'm imagining is that

3454
01:53:08,470 --> 01:53:06,080
that the very fact that so many people

3455
01:53:11,510 --> 01:53:08,480
are doing things with cryptocurrencies

3456
01:53:11,990 --> 01:53:11,520
is almost by definition a proof that

3457
01:53:14,470 --> 01:53:12,000
they have

3458
01:53:15,030 --> 01:53:14,480
value that is it could be the case that

3459
01:53:16,149 --> 01:53:15,040
you say well

3460
01:53:18,709 --> 01:53:16,159
everybody is doing things as a

3461
01:53:20,870 --> 01:53:18,719
speculator which might be close to true

3462
01:53:22,229 --> 01:53:20,880
but even so by the time there's a

3463
01:53:23,430 --> 01:53:22,239
complicated enough network of

3464
01:53:25,910 --> 01:53:23,440
transactions

3465
01:53:27,189 --> 01:53:25,920
that is in a sense building you up a

3466
01:53:28,950 --> 01:53:27,199
real value

3467
01:53:30,390 --> 01:53:28,960
even though those transactions don't

3468
01:53:32,310 --> 01:53:30,400
happen to actuate

3469
01:53:33,830 --> 01:53:32,320
particularly in the in the quotes real

3470
01:53:35,750 --> 01:53:33,840
world i mean this is

3471
01:53:37,189 --> 01:53:35,760
you know for somebody like me who builds

3472
01:53:38,950 --> 01:53:37,199
sort of a model of of the

3473
01:53:41,030 --> 01:53:38,960
universe that is in a sense a nice

3474
01:53:42,550 --> 01:53:41,040
abstract model one's asking

3475
01:53:43,990 --> 01:53:42,560
is there a fundamental difference

3476
01:53:46,229 --> 01:53:44,000
between the processes that are going on

3477
01:53:47,750 --> 01:53:46,239
in this purely abstract cryptocurrency

3478
01:53:49,750 --> 01:53:47,760
and in something that is connected to

3479
01:53:51,109 --> 01:53:49,760
the real world and buying cookies and so

3480
01:53:53,109 --> 01:53:51,119
on in the real world

3481
01:53:55,270 --> 01:53:53,119
and the answer is i'm increasingly

3482
01:53:57,430 --> 01:53:55,280
coming to the belief that there is a

3483
01:53:59,109 --> 01:53:57,440
a notion of a store of value that

3484
01:54:01,350 --> 01:53:59,119
doesn't have to do with

3485
01:54:02,950 --> 01:54:01,360
uh sort of the the details of that now

3486
01:54:03,990 --> 01:54:02,960
as a practical matter you know what's

3487
01:54:06,070 --> 01:54:04,000
going to happen with

3488
01:54:07,270 --> 01:54:06,080
with all those cryptocurrencies you know

3489
01:54:09,030 --> 01:54:07,280
i have no idea

3490
01:54:10,310 --> 01:54:09,040
you know i we've been involved with the

3491
01:54:12,950 --> 01:54:10,320
cryptocurrency world

3492
01:54:14,390 --> 01:54:12,960
so you know at this point i am the the

3493
01:54:15,750 --> 01:54:14,400
proud owner of a certain amount of

3494
01:54:17,750 --> 01:54:15,760
cryptocurrency

3495
01:54:20,149 --> 01:54:17,760
and um you know it's been interesting

3496
01:54:23,109 --> 01:54:20,159
for me because i've i've never done

3497
01:54:24,310 --> 01:54:23,119
uh you know our technology over language

3498
01:54:26,790 --> 01:54:24,320
and mathematica and so on

3499
01:54:29,270 --> 01:54:26,800
get widely used by quant finance people

3500
01:54:32,390 --> 01:54:29,280
um but i've i've never personally done

3501
01:54:34,870 --> 01:54:32,400
kind of um uh you know trading of of

3502
01:54:35,990 --> 01:54:34,880
of those things on any kind of serious

3503
01:54:39,430 --> 01:54:36,000
kind of actual

3504
01:54:41,030 --> 01:54:39,440
uh trading screens type basis and so

3505
01:54:42,070 --> 01:54:41,040
you know it's kind of it's kind of a

3506
01:54:43,830 --> 01:54:42,080
funny thing because you know i have a

3507
01:54:45,350 --> 01:54:43,840
company with lots of people in it but

3508
01:54:47,669 --> 01:54:45,360
in the end you know we we've gotten

3509
01:54:49,430 --> 01:54:47,679
cryptocurrency from from a bunch of

3510
01:54:50,310 --> 01:54:49,440
companies that we work with and it's

3511
01:54:51,669 --> 01:54:50,320
like what do we do with this

3512
01:54:54,310 --> 01:54:51,679
cryptocurrency my

3513
01:54:56,070 --> 01:54:54,320
my long time cfo was like you can't you

3514
01:54:57,430 --> 01:54:56,080
know we can't accept this cryptocurrency

3515
01:54:57,830 --> 01:54:57,440
what the heck are we going to do with it

3516
01:54:59,189 --> 01:54:57,840
and

3517
01:55:00,870 --> 01:54:59,199
you know how do we account for it in so

3518
01:55:01,430 --> 01:55:00,880
anyway we finally solved those problems

3519
01:55:05,750 --> 01:55:01,440
but

3520
01:55:09,270 --> 01:55:05,760
an amusing time

3521
01:55:12,390 --> 01:55:09,280
a few weeks ago when i was was both um

3522
01:55:13,910 --> 01:55:12,400
uh spending some number of hours working

3523
01:55:15,109 --> 01:55:13,920
on the question of why does the universe

3524
01:55:17,830 --> 01:55:15,119
exist

3525
01:55:19,510 --> 01:55:17,840
and multitasking between that and

3526
01:55:21,990 --> 01:55:19,520
cryptocurrency trading

3527
01:55:24,229 --> 01:55:22,000
and that was kind of a an interesting um

3528
01:55:26,390 --> 01:55:24,239
interesting personal experience

3529
01:55:28,149 --> 01:55:26,400
you were actively trading crypto what's

3530
01:55:28,950 --> 01:55:28,159
that we're just you're actively trading

3531
01:55:31,270 --> 01:55:28,960
crypto

3532
01:55:32,790 --> 01:55:31,280
yes because i because we got a bunch of

3533
01:55:35,830 --> 01:55:32,800
cryptocurrency and

3534
01:55:38,229 --> 01:55:35,840
we uh you know my calculation is

3535
01:55:38,950 --> 01:55:38,239
by the time it's uh well the real

3536
01:55:40,870 --> 01:55:38,960
problem was

3537
01:55:42,550 --> 01:55:40,880
that within my company it was like who

3538
01:55:43,510 --> 01:55:42,560
do we delegate the cryptocurrency

3539
01:55:45,430 --> 01:55:43,520
trading to

3540
01:55:46,709 --> 01:55:45,440
and generally the the general principle

3541
01:55:49,350 --> 01:55:46,719
of companies is

3542
01:55:50,709 --> 01:55:49,360
you know the ceo it starts with the ceo

3543
01:55:51,910 --> 01:55:50,719
and then they try and find somebody to

3544
01:55:53,990 --> 01:55:51,920
delegate it to

3545
01:55:55,910 --> 01:55:54,000
and if you know we have about 800 people

3546
01:55:57,510 --> 01:55:55,920
but you know if none of them

3547
01:55:59,270 --> 01:55:57,520
was kind of volunteering i'm going to be

3548
01:56:01,270 --> 01:55:59,280
the cryptocurrency trader

3549
01:56:03,270 --> 01:56:01,280
it kind of sticks with the ceo but but i

3550
01:56:05,669 --> 01:56:03,280
was also just interested to get some

3551
01:56:07,910 --> 01:56:05,679
intuitive feeling for it um which i

3552
01:56:09,910 --> 01:56:07,920
think i do have now a better feeling for

3553
01:56:11,270 --> 01:56:09,920
um but it was just a from a purely

3554
01:56:13,910 --> 01:56:11,280
personal point of view the

3555
01:56:15,589 --> 01:56:13,920
the um the couple of days that i i

3556
01:56:18,790 --> 01:56:15,599
happen to spend sort of um

3557
01:56:21,030 --> 01:56:18,800
uh uh multitasking between figuring out

3558
01:56:21,510 --> 01:56:21,040
why the universe exists and figuring out

3559
01:56:23,109 --> 01:56:21,520
um

3560
01:56:25,350 --> 01:56:23,119
how we should move this or that between

3561
01:56:26,550 --> 01:56:25,360
cryptocurrencies was uh was an

3562
01:56:29,189 --> 01:56:26,560
interesting um

3563
01:56:30,310 --> 01:56:29,199
experience let's say um i would say that

3564
01:56:33,030 --> 01:56:30,320
the uh

3565
01:56:35,430 --> 01:56:33,040
uh you know we're actually we have all

3566
01:56:37,350 --> 01:56:35,440
the all the apparatus in orphan language

3567
01:56:38,790 --> 01:56:37,360
to build some very fancy analytics for

3568
01:56:40,870 --> 01:56:38,800
understanding what happens with

3569
01:56:42,229 --> 01:56:40,880
cryptocurrencies and we are we're just

3570
01:56:44,870 --> 01:56:42,239
starting to do that

3571
01:56:46,070 --> 01:56:44,880
and um you know it's so deeply analogous

3572
01:56:48,870 --> 01:56:46,080
to what's happened in quant

3573
01:56:49,189 --> 01:56:48,880
quantitative finance it's um i think

3574
01:56:52,229 --> 01:56:49,199
it's

3575
01:56:54,310 --> 01:56:52,239
uh uh you know the question of

3576
01:56:56,310 --> 01:56:54,320
of is there going to be some store of

3577
01:56:58,310 --> 01:56:56,320
value in the world that isn't

3578
01:56:59,910 --> 01:56:58,320
gold and isn't fiat currency the answer

3579
01:57:01,589 --> 01:56:59,920
is presumably yes

3580
01:57:02,950 --> 01:57:01,599
unless governments get so freaked out

3581
01:57:06,070 --> 01:57:02,960
about it they managed to

3582
01:57:07,430 --> 01:57:06,080
to to sort of smash it um i think that

3583
01:57:09,030 --> 01:57:07,440
the uh

3584
01:57:10,950 --> 01:57:09,040
you know is it good for the world though

3585
01:57:14,550 --> 01:57:10,960
that's a more complicated question

3586
01:57:17,750 --> 01:57:14,560
um is it uh um is it something where

3587
01:57:19,030 --> 01:57:17,760
um you know where one can understand you

3588
01:57:20,790 --> 01:57:19,040
know is there some way

3589
01:57:22,470 --> 01:57:20,800
actually it's a good exercise you know

3590
01:57:23,990 --> 01:57:22,480
in this theory of economics that i'm

3591
01:57:25,750 --> 01:57:24,000
sort of slowly developing

3592
01:57:28,149 --> 01:57:25,760
there are going to be analogs of things

3593
01:57:30,149 --> 01:57:28,159
like time dilation

3594
01:57:31,990 --> 01:57:30,159
and things like the einstein equations

3595
01:57:33,350 --> 01:57:32,000
it's a it's a necessary feature of this

3596
01:57:34,870 --> 01:57:33,360
very aggregated

3597
01:57:36,550 --> 01:57:34,880
thing of lots of these transactions and

3598
01:57:38,310 --> 01:57:36,560
so then the question is well

3599
01:57:39,910 --> 01:57:38,320
one of the things i was joking with as

3600
01:57:43,350 --> 01:57:39,920
we were working on this a bit

3601
01:57:45,750 --> 01:57:43,360
that inflation in economics

3602
01:57:47,189 --> 01:57:45,760
might turn out to be bizarrely similar

3603
01:57:48,709 --> 01:57:47,199
to inflation

3604
01:57:50,390 --> 01:57:48,719
in cosmology what do you mean that

3605
01:57:53,270 --> 01:57:50,400
there's an analog of the einstein field

3606
01:57:54,870 --> 01:57:53,280
equations in economics

3607
01:57:56,310 --> 01:57:54,880
well you've got a whole space of

3608
01:57:57,830 --> 01:57:56,320
transactions right you've got all these

3609
01:58:00,149 --> 01:57:57,840
transactions happening

3610
01:58:01,430 --> 01:58:00,159
and you've got uh this question is

3611
01:58:02,390 --> 01:58:01,440
you've got all these transactions

3612
01:58:04,830 --> 01:58:02,400
happening

3613
01:58:06,070 --> 01:58:04,840
and one thing is to say there's a global

3614
01:58:08,470 --> 01:58:06,080
price

3615
01:58:09,589 --> 01:58:08,480
but actually that probably isn't true

3616
01:58:10,390 --> 01:58:09,599
you've got all these transactions

3617
01:58:13,189 --> 01:58:10,400
happening and they're all

3618
01:58:14,390 --> 01:58:13,199
interwoven in certain ways and you ask

3619
01:58:17,510 --> 01:58:14,400
questions like

3620
01:58:19,750 --> 01:58:17,520
is that space for example arbitrage

3621
01:58:21,830 --> 01:58:19,760
you know you go around a loop it's like

3622
01:58:23,510 --> 01:58:21,840
going around a loop in space-time

3623
01:58:25,830 --> 01:58:23,520
you go around a loop between this

3624
01:58:27,589 --> 01:58:25,840
transaction and it goes in time it goes

3625
01:58:29,030 --> 01:58:27,599
to that transaction and so on

3626
01:58:31,109 --> 01:58:29,040
the question of whether there is an

3627
01:58:32,790 --> 01:58:31,119
arbitrage opportunity becomes a question

3628
01:58:35,910 --> 01:58:32,800
of whether there's curvature

3629
01:58:37,750 --> 01:58:35,920
in this kind of economic space um and so

3630
01:58:39,669 --> 01:58:37,760
that's that's the beginning

3631
01:58:41,589 --> 01:58:39,679
i haven't worked this theory out okay so

3632
01:58:43,030 --> 01:58:41,599
i don't know how it's all going to work

3633
01:58:43,830 --> 01:58:43,040
but that's sort of the beginning of the

3634
01:58:46,390 --> 01:58:43,840
story

3635
01:58:48,470 --> 01:58:46,400
um and so that that's uh and you know

3636
01:58:50,870 --> 01:58:48,480
these questions about um

3637
01:58:52,790 --> 01:58:50,880
uh you know economic activity and and

3638
01:58:54,709 --> 01:58:52,800
deflection of gd6 and so on

3639
01:58:56,629 --> 01:58:54,719
i haven't worked all this stuff out but

3640
01:58:57,910 --> 01:58:56,639
i have this feeling that there may be a

3641
01:58:59,109 --> 01:58:57,920
correspondence

3642
01:59:01,589 --> 01:58:59,119
and that corresponds will be very

3643
01:59:03,350 --> 01:59:01,599
interesting because it allows one then

3644
01:59:04,390 --> 01:59:03,360
to leverage both the intuition from

3645
01:59:06,709 --> 01:59:04,400
finance

3646
01:59:07,669 --> 01:59:06,719
and the intuition from physics and merge

3647
01:59:09,669 --> 01:59:07,679
them together

3648
01:59:11,430 --> 01:59:09,679
i mean i i have a friend who's long

3649
01:59:13,189 --> 01:59:11,440
well-known person who's a

3650
01:59:15,270 --> 01:59:13,199
who's was spent a lot of time as a

3651
01:59:17,109 --> 01:59:15,280
trader and for him

3652
01:59:19,030 --> 01:59:17,119
sort of you know for me things are

3653
01:59:19,669 --> 01:59:19,040
functions they increase they decrease

3654
01:59:21,830 --> 01:59:19,679
whatever

3655
01:59:23,270 --> 01:59:21,840
for him everything is a put or a call

3656
01:59:23,669 --> 01:59:23,280
and i always have to try to remember you

3657
01:59:27,430 --> 01:59:23,679
know

3658
01:59:29,750 --> 01:59:27,440
that's just some function that is

3659
01:59:30,870 --> 01:59:29,760
you know some particular uh you know

3660
01:59:33,510 --> 01:59:30,880
payoff function as

3661
01:59:34,870 --> 01:59:33,520
a function of price but um uh so you

3662
01:59:36,390 --> 01:59:34,880
know these different intuitions that you

3663
01:59:39,030 --> 01:59:36,400
get in different places

3664
01:59:40,629 --> 01:59:39,040
um have uh uh like you know the notion

3665
01:59:41,830 --> 01:59:40,639
of volatility that we're very familiar

3666
01:59:44,390 --> 01:59:41,840
with in in the

3667
01:59:45,750 --> 01:59:44,400
in the financial case you know how does

3668
01:59:47,750 --> 01:59:45,760
that map into

3669
01:59:49,109 --> 01:59:47,760
fluctuations in space time in a physics

3670
01:59:50,310 --> 01:59:49,119
case or something i don't know

3671
01:59:52,070 --> 01:59:50,320
i don't know what the correspondence

3672
01:59:52,390 --> 01:59:52,080
will be but these are these are things

3673
01:59:56,070 --> 01:59:52,400
that

3674
01:59:57,350 --> 01:59:56,080
um um uh i think there was one other

3675
01:59:58,550 --> 01:59:57,360
part to that question which i perhaps

3676
02:00:01,669 --> 01:59:58,560
now have forgotten but

3677
02:00:02,629 --> 02:00:01,679
but about um uh about cryptocurrency

3678
02:00:04,790 --> 02:00:02,639
look i think that the

3679
02:00:06,629 --> 02:00:04,800
the thing that's interesting proof of

3680
02:00:09,830 --> 02:00:06,639
work algorithms versus ethereum

3681
02:00:12,390 --> 02:00:09,840
and proof of stake yeah i mean look

3682
02:00:13,750 --> 02:00:12,400
there are many we just actually did a

3683
02:00:16,709 --> 02:00:13,760
little conference about

3684
02:00:17,430 --> 02:00:16,719
distributed consensus which is a story

3685
02:00:20,629 --> 02:00:17,440
of

3686
02:00:22,790 --> 02:00:20,639
whole collection

3687
02:00:24,310 --> 02:00:22,800
of different ways to come to consensus

3688
02:00:27,189 --> 02:00:24,320
about what has happened

3689
02:00:28,950 --> 02:00:27,199
and in fact what we realized is that uh

3690
02:00:30,310 --> 02:00:28,960
both work i did on cellular automata and

3691
02:00:31,669 --> 02:00:30,320
other people did on cellular automata

3692
02:00:34,470 --> 02:00:31,679
back a long time ago

3693
02:00:36,629 --> 02:00:34,480
is deeply relevant there's this uh uh

3694
02:00:39,990 --> 02:00:36,639
blockchain called nkn

3695
02:00:42,950 --> 02:00:40,000
uh that is some uh nkn needless to say

3696
02:00:44,070 --> 02:00:42,960
sort of rhymes with nks my new kind of

3697
02:00:46,310 --> 02:00:44,080
science thing

3698
02:00:47,109 --> 02:00:46,320
and their their system is very much

3699
02:00:50,470 --> 02:00:47,119
based on

3700
02:00:52,149 --> 02:00:50,480
using

3701
02:00:54,629 --> 02:00:52,159
a notion of consensus that is a

3702
02:00:55,910 --> 02:00:54,639
distributed consensus based on graph

3703
02:00:58,310 --> 02:00:55,920
cellular automata

3704
02:01:00,070 --> 02:00:58,320
that is different from the the sort of

3705
02:01:01,270 --> 02:01:00,080
the the proof-of-work proof-of-stake

3706
02:01:03,270 --> 02:01:01,280
type approach

3707
02:01:04,310 --> 02:01:03,280
so it's a their variety of differences

3708
02:01:06,629 --> 02:01:04,320
that one is a i think

3709
02:01:07,750 --> 02:01:06,639
a rather interesting one that uh some

3710
02:01:07,990 --> 02:01:07,760
other people are trying to do as well

3711
02:01:10,470 --> 02:01:08,000
but

3712
02:01:13,430 --> 02:01:10,480
nkn is probably the most um uh the sort

3713
02:01:16,790 --> 02:01:13,440
of most broadly deployed version of that

3714
02:01:17,589 --> 02:01:16,800
um i think that the um uh that's an

3715
02:01:21,510 --> 02:01:17,599
example of

3716
02:01:23,669 --> 02:01:21,520
of um um i mean

3717
02:01:26,149 --> 02:01:23,679
the thing that the thing to realize

3718
02:01:29,350 --> 02:01:26,159
about about blockchain

3719
02:01:31,430 --> 02:01:29,360
is computation general idea

3720
02:01:33,350 --> 02:01:31,440
they're different form factors they're

3721
02:01:34,149 --> 02:01:33,360
different workflows in which computation

3722
02:01:35,750 --> 02:01:34,159
is used

3723
02:01:37,270 --> 02:01:35,760
what's happening in blockchain is

3724
02:01:39,030 --> 02:01:37,280
autonomous computation

3725
02:01:40,709 --> 02:01:39,040
that's what computational contracts will

3726
02:01:43,270 --> 02:01:40,719
be there they are

3727
02:01:44,870 --> 02:01:43,280
purely autonomous computation that no

3728
02:01:47,350 --> 02:01:44,880
human initiated it

3729
02:01:48,870 --> 02:01:47,360
it wasn't you know it's not it isn't

3730
02:01:51,830 --> 02:01:48,880
just living in a cloud it's

3731
02:01:53,669 --> 02:01:51,840
living in a way where where something

3732
02:01:57,030 --> 02:01:53,679
might happen in the real world

3733
02:02:00,070 --> 02:01:57,040
that actuates what ends up being a giant

3734
02:02:02,310 --> 02:02:00,080
chain of events in the kind of uh

3735
02:02:04,310 --> 02:02:02,320
in the sort of blockchain world and this

3736
02:02:05,750 --> 02:02:04,320
kind of autonomous computation

3737
02:02:07,430 --> 02:02:05,760
is you know it's kind of the ai's

3738
02:02:08,390 --> 02:02:07,440
takeover type scenario because it's

3739
02:02:09,830 --> 02:02:08,400
basically

3740
02:02:11,830 --> 02:02:09,840
you know you end up with these giant

3741
02:02:13,589 --> 02:02:11,840
chains of autonomous computations

3742
02:02:14,870 --> 02:02:13,599
and that's an interesting situation to

3743
02:02:16,550 --> 02:02:14,880
try to understand

3744
02:02:18,950 --> 02:02:16,560
and there are a lot of things that you

3745
02:02:21,990 --> 02:02:18,960
know something like an nft is a very

3746
02:02:24,149 --> 02:02:22,000
simple kind of uh

3747
02:02:25,990 --> 02:02:24,159
thing about autonomous computation but

3748
02:02:26,709 --> 02:02:26,000
there are vastly more complex versions

3749
02:02:28,310 --> 02:02:26,719
of that

3750
02:02:29,830 --> 02:02:28,320
and we're only at the very very early

3751
02:02:31,830 --> 02:02:29,840
stages of understanding

3752
02:02:33,350 --> 02:02:31,840
sort of what's possible in this in this

3753
02:02:34,629 --> 02:02:33,360
world of autonomous computation i think

3754
02:02:36,790 --> 02:02:34,639
the thing maybe i can

3755
02:02:38,149 --> 02:02:36,800
can end with is the the statement that

3756
02:02:41,910 --> 02:02:38,159
um uh

3757
02:02:44,390 --> 02:02:41,920
you know in in just as all these um

3758
02:02:45,589 --> 02:02:44,400
all these sort of interactions in

3759
02:02:46,870 --> 02:02:45,599
between atoms of space

3760
02:02:48,950 --> 02:02:46,880
to kind of what knit together the

3761
02:02:50,709 --> 02:02:48,960
structure of space i think these

3762
02:02:51,830 --> 02:02:50,719
transactions and economics are what kind

3763
02:02:54,390 --> 02:02:51,840
of knit together

3764
02:02:55,589 --> 02:02:54,400
the economic system and lead to sort of

3765
02:02:57,189 --> 02:02:55,599
coherence

3766
02:02:59,350 --> 02:02:57,199
in things like prices and economic

3767
02:03:00,229 --> 02:02:59,360
systems and it's kind of interesting to

3768
02:03:02,709 --> 02:03:00,239
see

3769
02:03:03,430 --> 02:03:02,719
uh what um you know when you have a a

3770
02:03:05,030 --> 02:03:03,440
fork

3771
02:03:06,629 --> 02:03:05,040
in a blockchain it's like an event

3772
02:03:09,189 --> 02:03:06,639
horizon in uh

3773
02:03:11,030 --> 02:03:09,199
in physical space time and uh and when

3774
02:03:27,030 --> 02:03:11,040
you have you know these closed

3775
02:03:31,030 --> 02:03:28,629
next few months available something i'm

3776
02:03:34,310 --> 02:03:31,040
i'm uh you know for me it's always some

3777
02:03:36,149 --> 02:03:34,320
uh it's a crazy thing because you know

3778
02:03:37,510 --> 02:03:36,159
i work in these different fields and

3779
02:03:39,270 --> 02:03:37,520
something like economics i've sort of

3780
02:03:40,070 --> 02:03:39,280
paid attention to it for decades but i

3781
02:03:43,350 --> 02:03:40,080
don't really

3782
02:03:45,030 --> 02:03:43,360
know it in great detail and um uh here i

3783
02:03:46,790 --> 02:03:45,040
am thinking about sort of reforming the

3784
02:03:48,470 --> 02:03:46,800
foundations of this field

3785
02:03:49,910 --> 02:03:48,480
and um it's a scary thing because it's

3786
02:03:51,270 --> 02:03:49,920
kind of like how much of the field

3787
02:03:52,790 --> 02:03:51,280
should i really know

3788
02:03:54,470 --> 02:03:52,800
if i start knowing too many of the

3789
02:03:56,629 --> 02:03:54,480
details i'm already

3790
02:03:57,510 --> 02:03:56,639
sunk in the mud you know it's very hard

3791
02:03:59,109 --> 02:03:57,520
to think

3792
02:04:00,950 --> 02:03:59,119
you know to stick your head out of the

3793
02:04:02,470 --> 02:04:00,960
mud so to speak because you're already

3794
02:04:04,229 --> 02:04:02,480
oh but i know that it's you know

3795
02:04:04,629 --> 02:04:04,239
marginal utility of this and that the

3796
02:04:05,750 --> 02:04:04,639
other

3797
02:04:07,189 --> 02:04:05,760
but at the same time you need to

3798
02:04:08,149 --> 02:04:07,199
familiarize yourself so how do you

3799
02:04:09,910 --> 02:04:08,159
strike that balance

3800
02:04:11,430 --> 02:04:09,920
yeah well it's a challenge right and i'm

3801
02:04:14,390 --> 02:04:11,440
i'm for economics i'm

3802
02:04:14,790 --> 02:04:14,400
i i keep on um uh sort of poking away

3803
02:04:15,990 --> 02:04:14,800
and i

3804
02:04:17,910 --> 02:04:16,000
you know i have friends who are

3805
02:04:20,149 --> 02:04:17,920
economists and i talk to them a bit and

3806
02:04:21,430 --> 02:04:20,159
and you know i'm still at the stage with

3807
02:04:22,790 --> 02:04:21,440
economics where

3808
02:04:25,030 --> 02:04:22,800
where everybody tells me something i

3809
02:04:26,149 --> 02:04:25,040
didn't know already eventually in most

3810
02:04:27,669 --> 02:04:26,159
fields that i work on

3811
02:04:29,109 --> 02:04:27,679
there comes this moment where most

3812
02:04:30,470 --> 02:04:29,119
things that i hear about are things that

3813
02:04:32,790 --> 02:04:30,480
i can readily fit in

3814
02:04:34,069 --> 02:04:32,800
to something i already know and and i'm

3815
02:04:36,390 --> 02:04:34,079
still still on the

3816
02:04:37,990 --> 02:04:36,400
still on the the upward curve with

3817
02:04:38,390 --> 02:04:38,000
economics but it always helps me with

3818
02:04:39,669 --> 02:04:38,400
that

3819
02:04:42,069 --> 02:04:39,679
understanding field particularly one as

3820
02:04:43,990 --> 02:04:42,079
complicated as economics to have

3821
02:04:45,910 --> 02:04:44,000
my own kind of theory about it because

3822
02:04:48,069 --> 02:04:45,920
then as i learn new things i have at

3823
02:04:49,990 --> 02:04:48,079
least a chance to fit them in to

3824
02:04:52,310 --> 02:04:50,000
just to a framework that i've already

3825
02:04:53,270 --> 02:04:52,320
built all right unfortunately i really

3826
02:04:55,669 --> 02:04:53,280
have to go

3827
02:04:57,109 --> 02:04:55,679
but um uh this has been fun lots of

3828
02:05:01,510 --> 02:04:57,119
interesting questions um

3829
02:05:06,470 --> 02:05:04,470
i didn't get to perhaps 70 percent of

3830
02:05:10,709 --> 02:05:06,480
the questions maybe even 80 percent

3831
02:05:13,990 --> 02:05:12,390
if some of you are more familiar with

3832
02:05:14,870 --> 02:05:14,000
the technical aspects of wolfram's

3833
02:05:18,550 --> 02:05:14,880
theory

3834
02:05:21,270 --> 02:05:18,560
i was curious about if the global

3835
02:05:22,390 --> 02:05:21,280
hyperbolicity condition means that there

3836
02:05:24,390 --> 02:05:22,400
are no

3837
02:05:25,510 --> 02:05:24,400
naked singularities or is he using that

3838
02:05:28,390 --> 02:05:25,520
simply as a way of

3839
02:05:29,109 --> 02:05:28,400
foliating into spatial surfaces to solve

3840
02:05:32,149 --> 02:05:29,119
the

3841
02:05:33,109 --> 02:05:32,159
einstein equations

3842
02:05:35,510 --> 02:05:33,119
but he doesn't think global

3843
02:05:36,950 --> 02:05:35,520
hyperbolicity is actually

3844
02:05:39,910 --> 02:05:36,960
intrinsic to our universe it doesn't

3845
02:05:42,950 --> 02:05:39,920
seem like it is because

3846
02:05:45,830 --> 02:05:42,960
our universe is a dissider space not an

3847
02:05:47,990 --> 02:05:45,840
anti-deer space

3848
02:05:49,270 --> 02:05:48,000
if any of you can help me out with that

3849
02:05:53,109 --> 02:05:49,280
that would be

3850
02:05:53,830 --> 02:05:53,119
wonderful oh right i wanted to know if

3851
02:05:56,229 --> 02:05:53,840
global

3852
02:05:57,270 --> 02:05:56,239
confluence meant that at any two points

3853
02:05:59,910 --> 02:05:57,280
on this manifold

3854
02:06:00,629 --> 02:05:59,920
that represent our world spatially at

3855
02:06:03,189 --> 02:06:00,639
least

3856
02:06:04,149 --> 02:06:03,199
that they will necessarily causally

3857
02:06:05,589 --> 02:06:04,159
influence each other

3858
02:06:07,350 --> 02:06:05,599
at some point because he did seem to

3859
02:06:09,189 --> 02:06:07,360
indicate that there's an expansion of

3860
02:06:12,390 --> 02:06:09,199
the universe inherent in its models

3861
02:06:15,589 --> 02:06:12,400
but at the same time any two points are

3862
02:06:16,950 --> 02:06:15,599
going to be causally connected with

3863
02:06:18,069 --> 02:06:16,960
global confluence at least that's the

3864
02:06:20,149 --> 02:06:18,079
way that i see it

3865
02:06:21,910 --> 02:06:20,159
so if anyone here can help me out with

3866
02:06:22,950 --> 02:06:21,920
that either you can email me that would

3867
02:06:26,390 --> 02:06:22,960
be great

3868
02:06:27,589 --> 02:06:26,400
and while i have you here i'm curious

3869
02:06:31,030 --> 02:06:27,599
why you think

3870
02:06:38,870 --> 02:06:31,040
that there's such an adverse reaction to

3871
02:06:42,790 --> 02:06:40,310
i think i'm not quite sure about that

3872
02:06:47,189 --> 02:06:42,800
because it is

3873
02:06:47,199 --> 02:06:53,109
but at the same time there are also

3874
02:06:56,229 --> 02:06:55,270
there is also resistance to even

3875
02:06:57,830 --> 02:06:56,239
penrose's

3876
02:06:59,510 --> 02:06:57,840
ideas so at first i was thinking well

3877
02:07:01,510 --> 02:06:59,520
maybe you have to be a professor but

3878
02:07:04,149 --> 02:07:01,520
penrose is not liked by other professors

3879
02:07:06,229 --> 02:07:04,159
because he has outlandish ideas

3880
02:07:07,990 --> 02:07:06,239
with regard to consciousness and the

3881
02:07:10,310 --> 02:07:08,000
origins of the universe and his cyclical

3882
02:07:11,669 --> 02:07:10,320
model

3883
02:07:13,350 --> 02:07:11,679
and then there's weinstein who gets

3884
02:07:14,149 --> 02:07:13,360
criticized too and then there's garrett

3885
02:07:16,629 --> 02:07:14,159
lisi

3886
02:07:18,470 --> 02:07:16,639
i was wondering why there are a couple

3887
02:07:21,270 --> 02:07:18,480
people

3888
02:07:23,510 --> 02:07:21,280
one named chiara chiara marletto and

3889
02:07:24,470 --> 02:07:23,520
then another named sabrina gonzalez that

3890
02:07:27,669 --> 02:07:24,480
have their own

3891
02:07:29,109 --> 02:07:27,679
intriguing ideas about physics and they

3892
02:07:31,510 --> 02:07:29,119
don't get criticized and i'm

3893
02:07:32,229 --> 02:07:31,520
curious if that's because they're women

3894
02:07:34,390 --> 02:07:32,239
and so

3895
02:07:35,589 --> 02:07:34,400
academia wants to show how diverse and

3896
02:07:39,350 --> 02:07:35,599
equitable they are

3897
02:07:42,709 --> 02:07:41,589
or if it's something else i'm not sure

3898
02:07:44,470 --> 02:07:42,719
no we didn't touch on bell's

3899
02:07:44,870 --> 02:07:44,480
inequalities though i believe stephen

3900
02:07:46,790 --> 02:07:44,880
has

3901
02:07:48,149 --> 02:07:46,800
see plenty of what stephen said for

3902
02:07:49,350 --> 02:07:48,159
example that quantum mechanics in

3903
02:07:51,189 --> 02:07:49,360
general relativity are

3904
02:07:52,629 --> 02:07:51,199
unified in that the path the way that

3905
02:07:54,069 --> 02:07:52,639
the formalism that leads you to the path

3906
02:07:55,030 --> 02:07:54,079
integral is the same that leads to the

3907
02:07:56,790 --> 02:07:55,040
einstein equations

3908
02:07:58,870 --> 02:07:56,800
they're just in different spaces as far

3909
02:07:59,189 --> 02:07:58,880
as i can tell that's not proven it's

3910
02:08:00,709 --> 02:07:59,199
just

3911
02:08:04,310 --> 02:08:00,719
it seems to be the case in the models or

3912
02:08:08,229 --> 02:08:04,320
the simulations that that they have

3913
02:08:10,709 --> 02:08:08,239
tested as for bell's inequality

3914
02:08:11,910 --> 02:08:10,719
i also don't know if steven's ideas on

3915
02:08:14,149 --> 02:08:11,920
that are

3916
02:08:17,510 --> 02:08:14,159
proven or if they're just surmising if

3917
02:08:19,030 --> 02:08:17,520
they're just conjectures right now

3918
02:08:20,709 --> 02:08:19,040
right dc atoms you can say that they're

3919
02:08:21,510 --> 02:08:20,719
avoiding testable predictions but that's

3920
02:08:23,510 --> 02:08:21,520
false because

3921
02:08:24,629 --> 02:08:23,520
steven isn't at all he's actively

3922
02:08:27,270 --> 02:08:24,639
looking for how he can

3923
02:08:28,069 --> 02:08:27,280
test his theory same with penrose and i

3924
02:08:30,709 --> 02:08:28,079
don't see any

3925
02:08:32,470 --> 02:08:30,719
testable or falsifiable predictions

3926
02:08:33,270 --> 02:08:32,480
coming from chiara or sabrina at least

3927
02:08:35,109 --> 02:08:33,280
not yet

3928
02:08:37,350 --> 02:08:35,119
but i haven't studied their models much

3929
02:08:40,390 --> 02:08:37,360
so it can't simply be that i don't know

3930
02:08:41,669 --> 02:08:40,400
why there's vitriol toward stephen eric

3931
02:08:44,550 --> 02:08:41,679
weinstein penrose

3932
02:08:45,750 --> 02:08:44,560
to some degree even julian barber but

3933
02:08:48,229 --> 02:08:45,760
there's not toward

3934
02:08:49,750 --> 02:08:48,239
chiara and sabrina is it because they're

3935
02:08:51,669 --> 02:08:49,760
young is it because they're women is it

3936
02:08:54,950 --> 02:08:51,679
because their models are just

3937
02:08:58,470 --> 02:08:54,960
superlative compared to

3938
02:09:00,870 --> 02:08:58,480
lisi garrett lisey or barber or penrose

3939
02:09:03,109 --> 02:09:00,880
i don't know

3940
02:09:04,709 --> 02:09:03,119
okay for the people watching if you want

3941
02:09:06,950 --> 02:09:04,719
to continue conversations

3942
02:09:08,629 --> 02:09:06,960
especially at a especially about

3943
02:09:11,669 --> 02:09:08,639
consciousness theoretical physics

3944
02:09:13,109 --> 02:09:11,679
and intersection between the two then

3945
02:09:14,870 --> 02:09:13,119
there's a discord

3946
02:09:16,149 --> 02:09:14,880
the discord is in the description of all

3947
02:09:18,550 --> 02:09:16,159
of the videos as well as

3948
02:09:20,629 --> 02:09:18,560
in the youtube page somewhere you can

3949
02:09:21,910 --> 02:09:20,639
click discord

3950
02:09:23,910 --> 02:09:21,920
right where there's a twitter and a

3951
02:09:25,750 --> 02:09:23,920
paypal and a patreon and so on there's a

3952
02:09:28,790 --> 02:09:25,760
discord link

3953
02:09:35,030 --> 02:09:32,950
this channel is meant to be more of a

3954
02:09:37,830 --> 02:09:35,040
i know strange it's strange it's meant

3955
02:09:39,430 --> 02:09:37,840
to be more of a community than it is

3956
02:09:41,189 --> 02:09:39,440
well it's it's a mission rather than a

3957
02:09:43,109 --> 02:09:41,199
podcast and

3958
02:09:45,030 --> 02:09:43,119
i see that as what separates it and the

3959
02:09:47,030 --> 02:09:45,040
mission is explicating toes

3960
02:09:48,629 --> 02:09:47,040
and advancing toes and furthering our

3961
02:09:51,270 --> 02:09:48,639
understanding of the universe

3962
02:09:52,069 --> 02:09:51,280
it's not a podcast per se like joe rogan

3963
02:09:54,950 --> 02:09:52,079
or

3964
02:09:56,629 --> 02:09:54,960
even lex friedman where they're

3965
02:09:58,149 --> 02:09:56,639
interested in speaking to people and

3966
02:10:01,109 --> 02:09:58,159
i don't mean this in any demeaning way

3967
02:10:03,750 --> 02:10:01,119
because their podcasts are far

3968
02:10:04,870 --> 02:10:03,760
far superior to mine there's a certain

3969
02:10:07,189 --> 02:10:04,880
high level

3970
02:10:08,550 --> 02:10:07,199
at which they operate and that's because

3971
02:10:10,709 --> 02:10:08,560
they're interested in many different

3972
02:10:12,069 --> 02:10:10,719
topics and they're generally interested

3973
02:10:14,069 --> 02:10:12,079
in conversing with people

3974
02:10:15,910 --> 02:10:14,079
and i'm not particularly or this podcast

3975
02:10:18,149 --> 02:10:15,920
isn't about conversing in that same way

3976
02:10:19,270 --> 02:10:18,159
it's more about office hours is one way

3977
02:10:20,470 --> 02:10:19,280
that i described and i'm trying to

3978
02:10:22,550 --> 02:10:20,480
clarify my own thinking

3979
02:10:23,669 --> 02:10:22,560
but another is that we have a aim and

3980
02:10:26,550 --> 02:10:23,679
the aim is

3981
02:10:27,189 --> 02:10:26,560
the theory of everything explicating

3982
02:10:30,550 --> 02:10:27,199
them

3983
02:10:30,790 --> 02:10:30,560
because there are around 200 as far as i

3984
02:10:33,990 --> 02:10:30,800
can

3985
02:10:37,270 --> 02:10:35,669
if you would like to further that aim

3986
02:10:39,510 --> 02:10:37,280
then please join the discord

3987
02:10:42,470 --> 02:10:39,520
if anyone is watching and is

3988
02:10:43,830 --> 02:10:42,480
mathematically or physically inclined

3989
02:10:45,830 --> 02:10:43,840
when i say physically inclined i mean

3990
02:10:48,390 --> 02:10:45,840
mathematical physics

3991
02:10:49,669 --> 02:10:48,400
and you can tell me if the adm

3992
02:10:52,149 --> 02:10:49,679
decomposition from

3993
02:10:53,350 --> 02:10:52,159
wolfram's model is necessary in order

3994
02:10:55,189 --> 02:10:53,360
for them to derive

3995
02:10:57,189 --> 02:10:55,199
general relativity that's as far as i

3996
02:10:59,350 --> 02:10:57,199
can see it is

3997
02:11:01,350 --> 02:10:59,360
but at the same time so if the adm

3998
02:11:04,550 --> 02:11:01,360
decomposition requires you to be able to

3999
02:11:05,830 --> 02:11:04,560
foliate your space time into spatial

4000
02:11:07,830 --> 02:11:05,840
dimensions

4001
02:11:09,109 --> 02:11:07,840
and then sequentially move forward or

4002
02:11:10,629 --> 02:11:09,119
backward in time and

4003
02:11:12,550 --> 02:11:10,639
that doesn't seem to be what

4004
02:11:15,589 --> 02:11:12,560
characterizes our world

4005
02:11:18,950 --> 02:11:15,599
but it seems to be

4006
02:11:21,990 --> 02:11:18,960
essential in wolfram's models

4007
02:11:24,470 --> 02:11:22,000
and i'm wondering is it essential

4008
02:11:25,990 --> 02:11:24,480
as well as even if it is so this adm

4009
02:11:28,870 --> 02:11:26,000
decomposition it's

4010
02:11:29,589 --> 02:11:28,880
not as if that's on solid foundation

4011
02:11:33,350 --> 02:11:29,599
there's a

4012
02:11:36,550 --> 02:11:33,360
dis proof of the adm decomposition from

4013
02:11:39,750 --> 02:11:36,560
kirush cheva and kuzmin but

4014
02:11:43,109 --> 02:11:39,760
that dis proof itself is contested

4015
02:11:45,990 --> 02:11:43,119
okay i gotta get going i should

4016
02:11:47,750 --> 02:11:46,000
i should eat and i should sleep and

4017
02:11:50,470 --> 02:11:47,760
spend some time with my wife

4018
02:11:53,109 --> 02:11:50,480
if you all would like to see more

4019
02:11:57,350 --> 02:11:53,119
conversations like this then please

4020
02:12:00,390 --> 02:11:57,360
do consider going to patreon.com

4021
02:12:00,870 --> 02:12:00,400
i will leave a link right now every

4022
02:12:03,510 --> 02:12:00,880
dollar

4023
02:12:04,229 --> 02:12:03,520
indeed does help tremendously so here's

4024
02:12:08,310 --> 02:12:04,239
one

4025
02:12:09,270 --> 02:12:08,320
into this podcast i spent so much time

4026
02:12:12,390 --> 02:12:09,280
sitting

4027
02:12:13,109 --> 02:12:12,400
that i was able to get a standing desk

4028
02:12:15,910 --> 02:12:13,119
which is

4029
02:12:16,790 --> 02:12:15,920
what you're seeing right now using some

4030
02:12:19,830 --> 02:12:16,800
of the funds

4031
02:12:22,390 --> 02:12:19,840
and that i just got this recently that

4032
02:12:25,350 --> 02:12:22,400
helps tremendously because

4033
02:12:26,870 --> 02:12:25,360
my legs and my well you can understand

4034
02:12:28,950 --> 02:12:26,880
how a standing desk helps

4035
02:12:30,229 --> 02:12:28,960
so if you do want do want to see more

4036
02:12:31,830 --> 02:12:30,239
conversations like this

4037
02:12:33,990 --> 02:12:31,840
if you for whatever reason want to make

4038
02:12:36,149 --> 02:12:34,000
it easier on kurt

4039
02:12:37,830 --> 02:12:36,159
or you would like to see more podcasts

4040
02:12:40,750 --> 02:12:37,840
more frequently

4041
02:12:42,629 --> 02:12:40,760
then please do consider going to

4042
02:12:44,950 --> 02:12:42,639
patreon.com and donating

4043
02:12:46,149 --> 02:12:44,960
a dollar ten dollars fifty dollars

4044
02:12:48,470 --> 02:12:46,159
whatever you feel like

4045
02:12:49,990 --> 02:12:48,480
you can afford or you would whatever you

4046
02:12:53,750 --> 02:12:50,000
feel like you would like to give

4047
02:12:54,310 --> 02:12:53,760
thank you so much yeah grayson that's

4048
02:12:56,229 --> 02:12:54,320
correct

4049
02:12:57,910 --> 02:12:56,239
so when i asked a question that i

4050
02:13:00,470 --> 02:12:57,920
expected an answer that would take

4051
02:13:01,430 --> 02:13:00,480
three minutes it would span the length

4052
02:13:02,950 --> 02:13:01,440
of 10 minutes

4053
02:13:05,350 --> 02:13:02,960
and i'm just thinking come on steven

4054
02:13:08,550 --> 02:13:05,360
time is money you know this

4055
02:13:11,030 --> 02:13:08,560
let's let's hurry this up because i have

4056
02:13:24,149 --> 02:13:11,040
150 questions to get to and that's not

4057
02:13:27,430 --> 02:13:25,910
all right everyone thank you so much for

4058
02:13:31,189 --> 02:13:27,440
watching and i hope that